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Speeding 2 at once no radar Ky

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Williamrig

Junior Member
Kentucky, I got a ticket 75/55, Officer in unmarked car (I knew he was law) was behind semi traveling around 50 on interestate, myself and others were behind officer when an opening came several cars and myself passed truck and officer. I was with flow of traffic a little under 70 (Not much) Seen officer speed out around truck and barrel down hwy. When it looked as though he was changing lanes to get behind me I let off gas and even may have braked. he almost hits me getting up to me a turms on lights. I start to pull over he races around me pointing to the side of the road. I pull over and he races on to the truck ahead of me and pulls them over. NO RADAR. from the time we pass him to pull over its about a mile and its about a 1/2 mile to where the posted limit increases to 65. I slowly travel on side of rd about 1/2 mile to where officer has truck ahead of me pulled over. he tells me wait in car and asked how fast I was going to which I replied I didnt know. When he comes back gets my lic and writes me a ticket for 20 over posted limit of 55. There was no way he could have gotten an acurate gage of how fast I was going as he never trailed me long enough. I was slowing down when he got behind me. I have asked for a trial date and pleaded not guilty. There was no radar what can I do to beat this? I think he wanted me to tell him how fast I was going because he couldnt get an accurate reading but I never increminated myself or even admitted speeding. I think he was upset we passed him as we were all going with the flow of traffic. He was in a suit and tie so he was not a regular patrolman. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks!
Williamrig
 


Jim_bo

Member
Kentucky, I got a ticket 75/55, Officer in unmarked car (I knew he was law) was behind semi traveling around 50 on interestate, myself and others were behind officer when an opening came several cars and myself passed truck and officer. I was with flow of traffic a little under 70 (Not much) Seen officer speed out around truck and barrel down hwy. When it looked as though he was changing lanes to get behind me I let off gas and even may have braked. he almost hits me getting up to me a turms on lights. I start to pull over he races around me pointing to the side of the road. I pull over and he races on to the truck ahead of me and pulls them over. NO RADAR. from the time we pass him to pull over its about a mile and its about a 1/2 mile to where the posted limit increases to 65. I slowly travel on side of rd about 1/2 mile to where officer has truck ahead of me pulled over. he tells me wait in car and asked how fast I was going to which I replied I didnt know. When he comes back gets my lic and writes me a ticket for 20 over posted limit of 55. There was no way he could have gotten an acurate gage of how fast I was going as he never trailed me long enough. I was slowing down when he got behind me. I have asked for a trial date and pleaded not guilty. There was no radar what can I do to beat this? I think he wanted me to tell him how fast I was going because he couldnt get an accurate reading but I never increminated myself or even admitted speeding. I think he was upset we passed him as we were all going with the flow of traffic. He was in a suit and tie so he was not a regular patrolman. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks!
Williamrig
My experience with cops and traffic tickets says that they frequently write tickets out of ego rather than in accordance with the law. They can do this because 95% of the public won't dispute the ticket. They'll just pay it.

I glanced through the KY Vehicle code and didn't see anything that jumped out at me concerning measuring your speed, uniform requirements, etc. However, I didn't look real hard.

Try to find something in the law on your own. If you can't, just go into court and argue that you weren't doing 75 and there is not reasonable way he could have determined you were (i.e. he didn't pace you for an adequate distance.)

Good luck.
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
When an officer is trained on RADAR, he is actually being trained to visually estimate speeds. Lack of RADAR won't mean a whole lot.

What do you consider long enough for him to watch you to decide how fast you're going? Most states require minimum 1/8 mile, which really isn't that far. Also, if the officer is traveling 50, and you blow by him, it's usually easy to determine that you're going just a tad more than merely 5mph faster than he.

I don't think it's looking good for you.
 

cepe10

Member
408 S.W.2d 421


Erna Elijah HONEYCUTT, Appellant,
v.
COMMONWEALTH of Kentucky, Appellee.


Court of Appeals of Kentucky.


Nov. 4, 1966.
Rehearing Denied Dec. 16, 1966.

Page 422

M. S. Mahurin, Henderson, for appellant.

Robert Matthews, Atty. Gen., George F. Rabe, Asst. Atty. Gen., Frankfort, for appellee.

CULLEN, Commissioner.

Erna Elijah Honeycutt has moved for an appeal from a judgment fining him $10 for exceeding the speed limit in the City of Henderson, by traveling 50 miles per hour in a 35-mile-per-hour zone. We are granting the motion because the appeal presents important questions of public concern with regard to the admissibility of evidence of speed as recorded by a radar device.

The trial court allowed a city policeman to testify that a radar device operated by him, having a speedometer unit in a police cruiser in which the policeman was parked just off a certain street in Henderson, registered the fact that a vehicle was approaching from the rear of the police cruiser at 50 miles per hour, and upon visual observation the policeman identified the vehicle as being one operated by the appellant, Honeycutt. The policeman testified that the accuracy of the radar unit had been tested, earlier in the same day, by use of a calibrated tuning fork and by a speedometer check with another police cruiser driven through the radar field. The evidence was admitted over the appellant's objections.

((note radar unit was calibrated against an ecternal source))

The appellant maintains that evidence of the radar reading should not have been admitted because (1) there was no expert testimony of the scientific validity of the principles of radar speed detection or that radar is capable of accurately measuring speed of a motor vehicle; (2) the accuracy of the particular instrument used in this case was not proved; and (3) the policeman was not shown to be qualified to properly operate and interpret the instrument. Further, appellant argues that there was insufficient proof that his car was the one that caused the radar speedometer to show a reading of 50 miles per hour.

This court has not previously been presented with a case involving the use of evidence from a radar detecter, but a number of such cases recently have reached the courts of sister states. Those courts have written at some length on the questions raised and we think there is no need for us to add to the literature on the subject. It will be sufficient for us to indicate our agreement with what appears to be the uniform view of all of the other courts in the cases that have arisen in the last few years.

First, the courts will take judicial notice of the fact that a properly constructed and operated radar device is capable of accurately measuring the speed of a motor vehicle. 7 Am.Jur.2d, Automobiles and Highway Traffic, sec. 327, p. 870; State v. Dantonio, 18 N.J. 570, 115 A.2d 35, 49 A.L.R.2d 460; Everight v. City of Little Rock, 230 Ark. 695, 326 S.W.2d 796; State v. Graham, Mo.App., 322 S.W.2d 188; State v. Tomanelli, 153 Conn. 365, 216 A.2d 625.

Second, the courts will not take judicial notice of the accuracy of the particular

Page 423

instrument employed on a specific occasion, but will treat, as sufficient evidence of accuracy, uncontested testimony that the instrument was tested within a few hours of its specific use, and found to be accurate, by use of a calibrated tuning fork and by a comparison with the speedometer of another vehicle driven through the radar field. 7 Am.Jur.2d, Automobiles and Highway Traffic, sec. 327, pp. 870, 871; State v. Dantonio, 18 N.J. 570, 115 A.2d 35; State v. Graham, Mo.App., 322 S.W.2d 188; State v. Tomanelli, 153 Conn. 365, 216 A.2d 625. In fact, in the latter (Connecticut) case it is indicated that the tuning fork test alone may be sufficient. It is pointed out in that case that the accuracy of the tuning fork itself may be assumed in the absence of an attack by the defendant.

Third, it is sufficient to qualify the operator that he have such knowledge and training as enables him to properly set up, test, and read the instrument; it is not required that he understand the scientific principles of radar or be able to explain its internal workings; a few hours' instruction normally should be enough to qualify an operator. State v. Dantonio, 18 N.J. 570, 115 A.2d 35; State v. Graham, Mo.App., 322 S.W.2d 188; State v. Tomanelli, 153 Conn, 365, 216 A.2d 625. In the instant case the policeman had received 13 weeks' training as a radar repairman and had operated radar equipment for almost two years. We think this was sufficient qualification to make his testimony competent. A reading of his testimony indicates that he understood how to operate the instrument.

The radar device used in the instant case simply registered a speed reading on a speedometer dial. It did not show a 'blip' on a screen or by any other means undertake to show location or direction of a vehicle in its filed. The testimony of the policeman was that he had set up the instrument to cover northbound traffic on the four-lane, two-way street in question. He said that he observed, in the rear view mirror of the cruiser, several vehicles approaching from the south. One of them was passing the others. The radar speedometer registered an unstable reading, with a top of 50 m.p.h. Directly, the reading stabilized at 50 m.p.h. and he observed in the mirror that one car had passed the others and was by itself out in front of the others. The fact that the one car was by itself, away from the others, and closest to the radar unit, enabled the radar unit to make a stable reading of its speed. The policeman pursued the car in question, in the cruiser, and caused it to stop. The car was being driven by the appellant.

((Note: officer had tracking history))

The appellant argues that there was insufficient evidence that his car was the one which caused the radar unit to show a 50 m.p.h. reading; that a south-bound car in the other lane could have caused it. In our opinion the reasonable import of the policeman's testimony is that he observed the appellant's car passing others at the same time the radar dial showed a fluctuating reading with a 50 m.p.h. maximum. When the dial stabilized at 50 m.p.h. the car was in front by itself, nearest to the unit. The policeman's estimate of its speed, from visual observation alone, was from 40 to 45 m.p.h. This evidence reasonably points to the appellant's car as the offending vehicle, and we do not think that the evidence is reduced to worthlessness by the remote chance of coincidence that a south-bound vehicle broke clear from a passing situation, at 50 m.p.h., at the same moment that the appellant's car got out in front in the north-bound lanes. Furthermore, the testimony indicates with reasonable certainty that a south-bound car, when it entered the range field of the radar, would have been beyond the north-bound cars and therefore would not have registered a stabilized reading.

In our opinion the radar evidence in this case was competent.

The judgment is affirmed.
 

cepe10

Member
There is no precedent for visual speed guessing in KY:) Nor does th IACP (international cheifs of police), or NHTSA (national highway traffic safety admin) ever endorse such a practice for prosecuting statutes.. see the highway safety deskbook:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/deskbk.html

It gives guidance on what is allowable as far a speed measurements and admissibility.

If the police officer decides to go in opposition to the requirements therein you can rightfully ask why his agency is certified in compliance with these agencies and he ignores their guidance anyway:) or if he just makes up his own guidelines on the fly:)

All in all this officer may not show if he was not on rountine patrol...
 

Williamrig

Junior Member
Update on speed ticket

Well I went to court yesterday and the officer did show up. When my name was called by the court clerk or whoever he was, We all three huddled at his table and he offered traffic school. I told him I may not be eligible since I attended about a year ago. He then said he could reduce it to 5 over and a fine. I balked and was going to accept when he said lets do this, If the officer agrees (and he did) well amend it to falty equipment and double the fine to $40 plus cost $129 if I plead guilty to which I agreed. (Glad I balked 20 more seconds) We all seemed to have got what we wanted. Me no points, them the fine and cost. I got the feeling since there was no radar I could have beat it altogether, Maybe next time. Thanks everyone for the info.
Bill
 

cepe10

Member
Exactly - he had no solid admissable evidence. Good job in showing up for court and calling his bluff - you most likely saved $2000 in insurance premiums over the next few years for a few hours of your time. Even though it is a bogus citation with no basis in public safety, the fine is really pretty trivial compared to that.
 

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