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  1. #1
    RockinZ28 is offline Junior Member
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    Speeding in construction zone

    What is the name of your state? California

    Must workers be present for it to be regarded as a construction zone? There were none and I have already went back, since it was 1/2 mile from my house, last Friday and asked what time they left. The foreman said they leave the job site at 2:30, my ticket is at 2:45. There were those little orange/white speed limit signs that say "Speed Limit 35" on light poles, but there were no signs indicating it was an active work zone at the time of the citation.

    Does the speed limit of 35 still stand? Or would it be the normal of 45 since no one was working?

    I have already requested Trial by Written Declaration. So I also need to know if I should just try to deny everything and then if I lose, go to court and try to get a lesser fine, or attempt to make a bargain in the mail trial first. I was charged with 60+ in a 35mph limit *construction zone*, which is $397 with no traffic school option. Honestly I would not mind pleading to 60mph in a 45mph non-const zone, provided I can attend traffic school. Is it wise to make such a request, or will they just think I'm guilty of everything?
  2. #2
    racer72 is offline Senior Member
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    All that is required for it to be considered a construction zone is the orange barrels and signage. Despite the lack of workers, the road many still not be safe to drive at the original speed limit.
    If you feel my answer is rude, mean, snarky or in anyway not to your liking, I did my job. You don't need to tell me.

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  3. #3
    RockinZ28 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer72 View Post
    All that is required for it to be considered a construction zone is the orange barrels and signage. Despite the lack of workers, the road many still not be safe to drive at the original speed limit.
    That is fine if the 35mph still applies. I just need to know if it being listed as a construction zone is justified on my ticket.

    (c) This section applies only when construction or maintenance work is actually being performed by workers, and there are work zone traffic control devices, traffic controls or warning signs, or any combination of those, to notify motorists and pedestrians of construction or maintenance workers in the area.

    That is the law in CA regarding construction zones. There were no workers present, and no signs indicating workers would be present. Just the posted 35mph limit signs. I even wouldn't mind getting off on 60mph in a 35 zone, that's still less than $100 I believe. With work zones they can raise the minimum fine and then multiply it by two I believe. I had one for 23mph over a few years back, was only $87.
  4. #4
    Ozark_Sophist is offline Senior Member
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    The sign said 35. The normal limit is 45. You drove 60+. At 60+, how were you able to determine there were no contruction or maintenance workers present? Regardless, the construction zone was marked.
  5. #5
    justalayman is offline Senior Member
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    are you willing to subpeona all contractors pay records to prove there was not a worker on duty at that time?

    Are there any security workers left on the sites that would be included that the foremen you spoke to may have disregarded in his statement?
  6. #6
    Ozark_Sophist is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockinZ28 View Post
    I even wouldn't mind getting off on 60mph in a 35 zone, that's still less than $100 I believe. With work zones they can raise the minimum fine and then multiply it by two I believe. I had one for 23mph over a few years back, was only $87.

    I support aggressive progressive fines.
    For 1 to 5 over, $5 per mph over ($5 - $25) plus costs.
    6 to 10, $10 per mph over ($60-$100) plus costs.
    11 to 15, $15 per mph over ($165-$225) plus costs.
    16 to 20, $20 p/mph over ($320-$400) plus costs
    21 to 25, $25 ($525 -$625)
    26+, $30 ($720 + 30 for each mph)
    plus double for work zone.
    times 1.5 for dusk to dawn or rain.
  7. #7
    justalayman is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozark_Sophist View Post
    I support aggressive progressive fines.
    For 1 to 5 over, $5 per mph over ($5 - $25) plus costs.
    6 to 10, $10 per mph over ($60-$100) plus costs.
    11 to 15, $15 per mph over ($165-$225) plus costs.
    16 to 20, $20 p/mph over ($320-$400) plus costs
    21 to 25, $25 ($525 -$625)
    26+, $30 ($720 + 30 for each mph)
    plus double for work zone.
    times 1.5 for dusk to dawn or rain.
    come on over to Indiana then. The new laws this year allow for a $1000 fine for speeding in a construction zone if it is a third offense.

    take note of the aggressive driving statute explained after the speeding violations on this link:
    [url]http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/27/welcome-to-indiana-home-of-the-1-000-speeding-ticket-and-that/[/url]
  8. #8
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    What was the section you were cited for?

    (Exact code section, please)

    And doing 60 in a 45 MPH zone would have a fine of $266+.

    Also, as for traffic school, you likely are not eligible for school by the clerk of the court since the allegation is 25+ over the limit ... however, the judge COULD allow for traffic school. You can always go to court and plead guilty to the speed only.

    Keep in mind that if you take the stand at trial, most traffic courts in CA remove the traffic school option from the table. But, since you are trying a TBD first, if you lose, you can always ask for a new trial in court.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
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    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  9. #9
    RockinZ28 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozark_Sophist View Post
    The sign said 35. The normal limit is 45. You drove 60+. At 60+, how were you able to determine there were no contruction or maintenance workers present? Regardless, the construction zone was marked.
    Because I live 1/2 mile away and drive that road at least twice a day to work. The construction had been done for a couple days as well. I clearly remember all the cones being placed on the median, when they are working they block off a lane. I asked the foreman that, he said yes if they were on the median then we had already left. It was a simple repaving job, all that was left was to paint the permanent lane lines, which was done at least two weeks after my ticket. There is no security, or yard around. That is why they must leave so early, to get back to wherever they come from so the workers can be on their way home by 3-3:30.
    And I would say that the road was perfectly safe to drive at higher speeds, I don't believe I was going 60+ though. Brand new pavement without a single bump, crack, or pothole on a perfectly clear 100 degree day. I have very wide Z-speed rated tires and big brakes to boot.
    I think that law makes it clear two conditions must be met for it to be considered a construction zone, 1: Workers MUST be present and 2) there are work zone traffic control devices, traffic controls or warning signs, or any combination of those. Condition 1 was not met.
    Quote Originally Posted by justalayman View Post
    are you willing to subpeona all contractors pay records to prove there was not a worker on duty at that time?

    Are there any security workers left on the sites that would be included that the foremen you spoke to may have disregarded in his statement?
    I will try to get a letter in writing from the foreman stating what time they leave. Hopefully he has a record of the exact date and the time they left that day. The workers would most likely all still be on the clock until 3-3:30 for travel or unloading at their yard, so that wouldn't help me.
    Quote Originally Posted by CdwJava View Post
    What was the section you were cited for?

    (Exact code section, please)

    And doing 60 in a 45 MPH zone would have a fine of $266+.


    - Carl
    VCC 22350 Speed In Construction Zone
    I honestly don't believe I was doing 60+ either, I was seriously shocked when he told me I was going that fast. He said he determined I was going that speed cause he was doing 60mph and I was pulling away from him. He was probably 1000+ feet away from me, going around a long sweeping curve. I stopped at a red light about to make a right turn into my neighborhood, looked in my rearview and he was way back there even after I had come to a complete stop. I think he sped up to catch up to me cause he was so far behind. As I said I go down this street everyday, going 60mph on it is pretty fast and I would have noticed, I was just cruising that day. Only reason I said I would plead guilty to 60 in a 45 is because the fine would be significantly reduced, and I'd also request I could then attend traffic school. I know I'm not eligible currently. I've had two prior speeding tickets years ago and both granted me the option in the fine notification.
    Even if I got 55 in a 35 non-construction zone I would be ok with that, that is probably what I'm guilty of. I'm not trying to escape the whole ticket, just get punished for what I actually committed per the law.
  10. #10
    GulfBreeze is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockinZ28 View Post
    What is the name of your state? California

    Must workers be present for it to be regarded as a construction zone? There were none and I have already went back, since it was 1/2 mile from my house, last Friday and asked what time they left. The foreman said they leave the job site at 2:30, my ticket is at 2:45. There were those little orange/white speed limit signs that say "Speed Limit 35" on light poles, but there were no signs indicating it was an active work zone at the time of the citation.

    Does the speed limit of 35 still stand? Or would it be the normal of 45 since no one was working?

    I have already requested Trial by Written Declaration. So I also need to know if I should just try to deny everything and then if I lose, go to court and try to get a lesser fine, or attempt to make a bargain in the mail trial first. I was charged with 60+ in a 35mph limit *construction zone*, which is $397 with no traffic school option. Honestly I would not mind pleading to 60mph in a 45mph non-const zone, provided I can attend traffic school. Is it wise to make such a request, or will they just think I'm guilty of everything?
    What POSTED speed limit was up at the time? Is your argument that you saw no workers, thus not active at that time?
  11. #11
    RockinZ28 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GulfBreeze View Post
    What POSTED speed limit was up at the time? Is your argument that you saw no workers, thus not active at that time?
    Well it depends which supercedes the other I guess. 45mph is the normal limit, but there were small signs on light poles indicating a limit of 35mph due to a work zone. I'm not so concerned with that though, just getting my fine doubled since it was a construction zone. But to me that law is clear that workers must be active for it to be considered one. So that would save me maybe $200+, if my fine is $400 and had been doubled. Plus I believe they can add more to the initial fine for it being in a construction zone. Isn't the CA law you can't be fined more that $100-First offense within 1 year for VC 22350?
  12. #12
    Ozark_Sophist is offline Senior Member
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    Your complaint about workers not present are the same complaints the Director of the Missouri Department of Transportation gets everytime he appeared before a senate or house committee when I covered state news. All he had to do was trot out the widows, orphans, the guys in the wheelchairs, and then explain the labor costs associated with taking down and setting up the speed limit signs. The senators and representatives would say, "oh, now I see your point." And that was that.

    BTW, I got to know the representatives by the vehicles they drove because they usually passed me in the mornings.
  13. #13
    Maestro64 is offline Member
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    Are challenging the speed he clocked you or the fact you do not want to pay the double fine.

    Remember you do not have to prove there were no worker there, the state has to prove they were. The officer has to offer in to evidence the fact workers were there, he most likely will state he saw someone or a construction vehicle, then you have to challenge his statement. Even if he saw someone it might not have been a constructions worker but his word will carry some weight unless you can challenge it.

    If you get a written statement from the foreman you will need to have it notarized, and I doubt the foreman will help you reduce your ticket since it is his life that is usually on the line with speeders and reckless drivers in a construction sites. I personally do not see the foreman helping you let alone giving you time sheets, and you would need it for everyone who could be at that location.

    If you truly believe you were not doing 60 in 35, you might have better chance of challenging that part of the ticket and get the whole thing thrown out.
  14. #14
    RockinZ28 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
    Are challenging the speed he clocked you or the fact you do not want to pay the double fine.

    Remember you do not have to prove there were no worker there, the state has to prove they were. The officer has to offer in to evidence the fact workers were there, he most likely will state he saw someone or a construction vehicle, then you have to challenge his statement. Even if he saw someone it might not have been a constructions worker but his word will carry some weight unless you can challenge it.

    If you get a written statement from the foreman you will need to have it notarized, and I doubt the foreman will help you reduce your ticket since it is his life that is usually on the line with speeders and reckless drivers in a construction sites. I personally do not see the foreman helping you let alone giving you time sheets, and you would need it for everyone who could be at that location.

    If you truly believe you were not doing 60 in 35, you might have better chance of challenging that part of the ticket and get the whole thing thrown out.
    Well it seems that if the officer has stated I was in a construction zone, it is up to me to prove there were no workers/vehicles/pedestrians anywhere. If he's going to lie in his statement, there probably isn't much I can do. There definitely were no persons or equipment anywhere, hell it was over 105 F. It seems they have halted work there altogether, as I have seen no workers for a month, but all the cones are on the median and the signs are still up. They are building a baseball field/recreation area about 1/2 mile down the road, but it doesn't interfere with traffic. In fact the construction zone seems to end just before the turnoff to the field, there is no sign to notify you have reached the end of the work zone either.
    That's where I talked to the foreman. He said it was his company that also did the road work. He seemed friendly, even offered me his advice on evading the ticket. I'm sure he and his workers saw me many times, and I had always been driving slow when they were around. I used to do construction and I will show them the same courtesy I expected. So hopefully if I ask politely he will help me as best he can, there isn't much else I have to go on.
    I don't know how I can go about challenging the speed. He said he paced me, no radar. I honestly did not look at my speedo, but 60mph is pushing it on that street for handling, I was just lazily driving.

    That's about all I need to say about my testimony of the events and circumstances, everyones condemnations and advice has been appreciated . I am going to be doing trial by written declaration as I previously stated, so I have a couple more questions about that.

    Firstly, will the officer that cited me receive a copy of my defense before he submits his statement? I ask this because if he does, he will be required, and probably try, to prove there were workers present if I'm challenging it. If he doesn't see my defense, he may not even dispute it.

    Secondly, I was guilty of speeding, just not in a construction zone, as far as I can tell from the wording of the law in CA. I am willing to pay my fine for what I believe I committed. Can I plead not guilty to the charges on the ticket, and then plead guilty to going 55 in a 35 zone, non-construction? Should I do that in the written trial, or if I lose wait until the new courtroom trial to enter a guilty plea? I respect the law and have never thought about challenging a ticket until now, I was guilty of exactly what the previous tickets stated, this time though I don't share that belief. And these were all 18 months+ apart, so it's not as though this is a daily occurrence .
  15. #15
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockinZ28 View Post
    Firstly, will the officer that cited me receive a copy of my defense before he submits his statement?
    No. He should only get the request from the court to submit his statement.

    Secondly, I was guilty of speeding, just not in a construction zone, as far as I can tell from the wording of the law in CA. I am willing to pay my fine for what I believe I committed. Can I plead not guilty to the charges on the ticket, and then plead guilty to going 55 in a 35 zone, non-construction? Should I do that in the written trial, or if I lose wait until the new courtroom trial to enter a guilty plea?
    If you admit to the speed in your TBD, but successfully dispute the Construction Zone, you may get a guilty on speed with no enhancement.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

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