Speeding in one state ticket in another

[Daver123]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IN
I was speeding in Michigan going 6 mph over the limit and saw a police officer turning around at the state line. I slowed down to the posted speed limit well before I got to the state line. The Indiana state trooper waited for me to go by then pulled me over in Indiana. He said I was going one speed in Michigan and another in Indiana which were both wrong (too high). He ended up giving me a ticket for 13 mph over which I knew was wrong so I asked to see the radar gun and he refused. First is he allowed to give me a ticket for my speed in Michigan if he is a Indiana trooper? If not can I state in court that I saw the cop well before the state line and I was paying attention to my speed and know I was going 70 as I crossed into Indiana and the officer lied?

Thanks

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IN
I was speeding in Michigan going 6 mph over the limit and saw a police officer turning around at the state line. I slowed down to the posted speed limit well before I got to the state line. The Indiana state trooper waited for me to go by then pulled me over in Indiana. He said I was going one speed in Michigan and another in Indiana which were both wrong (too high). He ended up giving me a ticket for 13 mph over which I knew was wrong so I asked to see the radar gun and he refused. First is he allowed to give me a ticket for my speed in Michigan if he is a Indiana trooper? If not can I state in court that I saw the cop well before the state line and I was paying attention to my speed and know I was going 70 as I crossed into Indiana and the officer lied?

Thanks

You can SAY anything you want. How will you prove it?

 

[Jim_bo]

You can SAY anything you want. How will you prove it?

He doesn't HAVE to prove it... the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Or maybe your position is that a cop can and does lie at will in order to secure prosecution for a speeding ticket. As I said before in a different thread... you should just post a sticky at the top of each forum announcing to all who would post that you think they are guilty and cops/courts can do no wrong. It is quite inefficient that you have to spew the same message in so many individual threads.



Daver,
Of course the IN cop can't write you a ticket for speeding in MI. That guy is a pinhead. Just present yourself in court as you have here and you should be fine.

 

[Daver123]

I guess the question is, is a police officer allowed to give you a ticket for something you did in another state? That's what I was wondering. I think he got mad that I had slowed down in his state and decided to give me a ticket anyway.

Thanks

 

[LSCAP]

I THINK he is saying the Indiana cop believed he was speeding in Michigan and (spitefully) gave him a speeding ticket for exceeding Indiana's limit.

 

[Zigner]

He doesn't HAVE to prove it... the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Or maybe your position is that a cop can and does lie at will in order to secure prosecution for a speeding ticket. As I said before in a different thread... you should just post a sticky at the top of each forum announcing to all who would post that you think they are guilty and cops/courts can do no wrong. It is quite inefficient that you have to spew the same message in so many individual threads.



Daver,
Of course the IN cop can't write you a ticket for speeding in MI. That guy is a pinhead. Just present yourself in court as you have here and you should be fine.

Oh brother - what a maroon!

Look, the cop will present evidence (his testimony). The evidence will be very compelling.
Now, the OP will need to rebut said evidence. How will he do that? By giving his own evidence (his testimony). Now, the question becomes, has the OP presented enough evidence to rebut the officer's evidence. Or, to boil it down even further...who's the court gonna believe?

(This is, of course, a simplified explanation for the slower amongst us)

 

[Jim_bo]

Oh brother - what a maroon!

Look, the cop will present evidence (his testimony). The evidence will be very compelling.
Now, the OP will need to rebut said evidence. How will he do that? By giving his own evidence (his testimony). Now, the question becomes, has the OP presented enough evidence to rebut the officer's evidence. Or, to boil it down even further...who's the court gonna believe?

(This is, of course, a simplified explanation for the slower amongst us)

Well, our OP says that he slowed down to under the speed limit before he crossed the State line. You say the cop will testify that he did not. So, are you calling our OP a liar or the cop? You can't have it both ways.

If your point is that the cop can make a bogus arrest and then lie about it in court to secure a conviction, then that says a lot about your opinion of the police and our judicial system.

Of course, if you simply think the OP is a liar, why not just say it?

 

[Maestro64]

I think what you are saying is that the officer in IN measured your speed while you were still in Michigan, which has a different speed limit and you slowed as you entered IN since you saw him and you knew you had to reduce your speed to a lower speed in IN.

The only question is did he write the ticket based on the IN speed limit or the Michigan speed limit. If he wrote it based on Michigan speed limits, that is a no no, an officer from one jurisdiction can not enforce laws from another. Meaning an IN officer has no legal right to enforce Michigan speed laws. Now if he used your Speed in Michigan to write you a ticket based on IN speed limit. That one is going to be little harder to address.

What location did he write on the ticket if he wrote state line, then you got something to use against him since he could not have measured your speed when you were on top of him, it had to measure your speed a distance down the road which would put you in another state at a different speed limit and outside his jurisdiction.

 

[Zigner]

Well, our OP says that he slowed down to under the speed limit before he crossed the State line. You say the cop will testify that he did not. So, are you calling our OP a liar or the cop? You can't have it both ways.

If your point is that the cop can make a bogus arrest and then lie about it in court to secure a conviction, then that says a lot about your opinion of the police and our judicial system.

Of course, if you simply think the OP is a liar, why not just say it?

Jim -

We already know what both the OP and the officer are saying. I'm not calling either person a liar. I'm just letting our OP know the reality of what will happen in court.

 

[Daver123]

Maestro64,
Just to clear my question up alittle, the speed limit is 70 in both states at that point. The officer wrote the ticket for speeding at the State line (mile marker 0) which actually is mile marker 45 in Indiana and Mile marker 0 in Michagan. The officer was turning around right at the border (actuall I believe it is just over the Michagan border) and pulled me over in Indiana. In court if I imply I was going over 70 in Michigan and slowed down to 70 before I got to Indiana can an Indiana court use that againced me that I admited to speeding even if it was in another state? So the ticket states I was right on him or past him when he clocked me at 83. It was a clear day in the middle of the afternoon and I saw the officer over 300 yards away, I had plenty of time to react of course I was only going 70 when I passed him.

Thanks in advanced

 

[Maestro64]

Okay, clearer picture now,

Sounds like he was using moving radar if he flipped a u-turn at the boarder. that is the only way he got you in the Michigan. So he attempted to measure your speed while moving and across a divide highway and while you were still in another state.

There is lots you can do with this...

First attack the Moving Radar data, it is filled with issues on getting a good reading. If he was passing other car at the time he saw 83 could have affect his measurement. Moving Radar tries to estimated the patrol cars speed base on the return signal from the ground in front of the car. Then it subtracts this speed form the returning signal form another object, i.e. you car and calculates your speed. If the patrol car passes another car or one is in the near field of the radar it can make the patrol cars speed looks slower then it is thus making your speed be higher.

Personally do not admit anything, focus on the fact he wrote the ticket at mile marker 0 so he could not have measured your speed while in the state of IN, and if he did make some sort of measurement using Moving Radar it could be wrong due to the possibilities of errors from other sources.

I am not sure how successful someone could be stating that he measured the speed in another state and since he is not an officer of that state he can not use evidence gathers outside his jurisdiction. A good lawyer might find that one interesting to argue in front of the court.

Your ticket does not surprised me, I got lost coming out of OH crossing into IN once and saw the IN state police sitting at the board just waiting. Since I was lost, I was under the speed limit so it did not matter to me.

Do a search on moving radar and you will learn what you need to discredit the officers radar data even if he obtained in while you were still in another state at that time.

also you might want to come up with a drawing like this to show what could have happen

http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radarbeam2al2.jpg

 

[Jim_bo]

Daver,

To be clear... you were speeding in MI. As you approached the IN line, you saw the cop and slowed to under the speed limit before you crossed the IN line. The cop got you on radar as speeding, but you were in MI at the time. So, the answer is clear... the cop cannot write you an IN ticket for speeding in MI.... period!

Now, there is another point. You say the cop wrote on the ticket that you were speeding at the 0 mile marker, but it is actually the 45 mile marker. So, the cop has accused you of speeding at a location 45 miles away.... clearly, you are NOT guilty of that charge either.

Be confident in your arguments and simply present them in a proffessional manner to the judge and you should be fine.

 

[Zigner]

You say the cop wrote on the ticket that you were speeding at the 0 mile marker, but it is actually the 45 mile marker. So, the cop has accused you of speeding at a location 45 miles away.... clearly, you are NOT guilty of that charge either.

Just to clarify for you...

Mile marker 45 in one state is mile marker 0 in another state...it's the same point in space.

 

[Jim_bo]

Just to clarify for you...

Mile marker 45 in one state is mile marker 0 in another state...it's the same point in space.

Agreed... but, since you didn't read the post, I'll clarify it for you... it was milemarker 0 on the MI side... Mile marker 45 on the IN side (i.e. the side he got the ticket in). The cop wrote he was at mile marker 0. Unless the cop was trying to enforce the law in MI, mile marker 0 is 45 miles away.


Keep searching, I'm sure you'll find another reason you can use to try to convince the OP he should just pay his fine and plead guilty.

 

[Maestro64]

Agreed... but, since you didn't read the post, I'll clarify it for you... it was milemarker 0 on the MI side... Mile marker 45 on the IN side (i.e. the side he got the ticket in). The cop wrote he was at mile marker 0. Unless the cop was trying to enforce the law in MI, mile marker 0 is 45 miles away.

Ah I missed that, you're correct if he wrote 0 mile maker that means it is in MI since the officer would have had to written 45 as the locate since 0 on that highway would put you at the IN IL boarder. I am guessing the op was on 94.

I would use this fact to your advantage, since the officer wrote you were in MI and the officer is trusted officer of the court and the court has to believe he would not make a mistake like this, he obviously was in another state enforcing its laws which is not allowed. Do not let the officer try to change his story, you should even back him up and say he stopped you at the boarder thus the reason he wrote the 0 mile market, why else would be have put that down.