Speeding in PA - Tracker used

[BigJohnPA]

My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Pennsylvania

I was recently cited for speeding in a township in southeastern PA. The citation states statute 3362 a3, and in section 25, the "Other" box is checked (options are Radar, ESP, Clocked, Vascar, A.O.V, and Other). Speeding is checked, and 48.6 MPH in a 30 MPH zone is indicated.

The officer noted the serial number of the equipment, and also noted the Station Equip.Tested and Date Equip. Tested. In the remarks, he wrote "Tracker".

However, sections 52 (Miles Followed), 53 (Miles Timed), and 54 (Secs. Timed) are **all blank**.

As I understand, the "Tracker" device is a newer version of a Vascar unit, taking distance and time to determine average speed. I'm 99% certain the officer was stationary, but I only saw him after I travelled approximately 1/2 mile past the zone and he pulled in behind me at a traffic signal. The citation indicates the Location, so I went back to check, and there are a pair of white lines across the road, so I assume this is where he was set up.

My question is -- when using Vascar or Tracker, shouldn't the officer be required to enter the Miles Followed/Timed and Secs Timed data to backup the listed speed? I assume I will need to ask for this information through discovery, but where might it be located? In the officer's daily log? If the officer can't substatiate the speed with the distance timed and the seconds timed, should I ask for a dismissal?

Thanks!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

[Maestro64]

In PA there is no authorized device called "tracker" is what is what he wrote. Also discover in traffic ticket is not automatically granted, however, there is a number of things the officer must do to uphold the ticket.

The only time the officer is not required to complete that information if Radar is used and since radar was not indicated on the ticket and he checked "other" he either used a stopwatch of some sort of the new ENRADD units in either case he is required to record certain information like miles times and with ENRADD they usually write down 3 ft and the speed, since ENRADD does not display any sort of time.

Also, PA has a list of approved devices

[url=http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/data/vol38/38-52/2355.html]PA Bulletin, Doc. No. 08-2355[/url]

if you look "tracker" is not listed, and the police can only used what is listed on this listed and they must indicate on the ticket the exact device they used otherwise the ticket is not valid. Also, he required to bring the "Original" calibration certificate otherwise the evidence that the device was calibrated is not valid either.

Are you sure he did not write Accutrack which is a stopwatch they sometimes use and that is allowed. However the officer is required to provide all the necessary supporting documentation to show it is approved and properly calibrated. Many time the officer fails to bring this stuff to court.

[BigJohnPA]

Thanks Maestro

Actually, tracker is listed under nonradar:

Under 75 Pa.C.S. § 3368(c)(3), the Department has approved, for use by any police officer, the following electronic speed-timing device (nonradar) which calculates average speed between any two points:

(1) VASCAR-plus. Manufactured by Traffic Safety Systems, a division of Power Systems & Controls, Incorporated, 3206 Lanvale Avenue, Richmond, VA 23230.

(2) VASCAR-plus II. Manufactured by Traffic Safety Systems, a division of Power Systems & Controls, Incorporated, 3206 Lanvale Avenue, Richmond, VA 23230.

(3) VASCAR-plus III. Manufactured by Traffic Safety Systems a division of Power Systems & Controls, Incorporated, 3206 Lanvale Avenue, Richmond, VA 23230.

(4) VASCAR-plus IIIc. Manufactured by Traffic Safety Systems a division of Power Systems & Controls, Incorporated, 3206 Lanvale Avenue, Richmond, VA 23230.

(5) V-SPEC-Manufactured by Y.I.S., Incorporated, 1049 Hartley Street, Post Office Box 3044, York, PA 17404.

(6) Tracker by Patco. Manufactured by Kustom Signals, Incorporated, 9325 Pflumm, Lenexa, KS 66215.


Regarding the missing Distance and Time information, do you have any case law or Statute that indicates the requirement to note the information on the citation? I'm assuming that the officer would have recorded the info, at a minimum, in his log or perhaps on the original citation. However, if the officer cannot substantiate the MPH with the original distance (with supporting document from DOT or the Twp certifying the distance as correct), how can the state prosecute?

[Maestro64]

Missed that one, learn something new everyday,

It is just another type of VASCAR, first time I every hear of anyone get caught with one of those. It been approved by PA since 1996.

[url]http://www.kustomsignals.com/products/pdf/product_58101058.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.kustomsignals.com/pdf/Tracker_om.pdf[/url]

I personally have not come across any statue or case law that calls out every line of information that is required on the ticket. PA has this:

[url=http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/234/chapter4/s403.html]234 Pa. Code Rule 403.*Contents of Citation.[/url]

It is says "summary of the facts sufficient to advise the defendant of the nature of the offense charged" and the time and distance is an element of the offense.

The question is, what distance were you measured over, and since that information is not there how do you know the officer enter the correct distance into the computer, it is basing the speed on the time over that distance. This unit does not have the ability to enter the distance in manually, the officer is required to drive the distance with the car it measures the distance based on the odometer. Oh that needs to be calibrated as well. If he did not flip the switch just right and the computer thinks the distance is more than the spacing of the white lines than your speed will show higher.

You could try and get it dismissed on the ground of lack of evidence. Remember the ticket is the facts, and there is fact missing in this case. Looks like he was too lazy to complete the ticket properly.

[BigJohnPA]

Originally Posted by Maestro64

It is says "summary of the facts sufficient to advise the defendant of the nature of the offense charged" and the time and distance is an element of the offense.

Thanks for the reply

I scanned the PA law and bulletin, but could not find much on a definition of what makes an adequate "summary of facts". IMHO, the failure to indicate the distance and time is a crucial element of my defense. I'm 99% sure the officer was using painted lines on the road. If I knew what the distance was (either from the citation or from the officer's notes/log), I would ask for a certification of the distance.

Do you know what is required to make a discovery request to a PA Magistrate's court? I'm getting ready to call the clerk, but I gather from googling that local courts are not going to make it easy to get the info I need.

Thanks!

[Maestro64]

PA does not allow discover requests in Traffic cases, at least no by a non lawyer that is. They will tell you the officer is required to have all the necessary information at court. Also, the police will tell you they do not have log book or notebook for tickets. You correct the local court do not provide any help, they are not allowed, the stance is that they have to be impartial and if they provide help or instruction to you on how to proceed they could be providing legal help which they are not allow to do.

For your case look at this

[url]http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter33.pdf[/url]

Specially section 3338 and this paragraph

(d) Classification, approval and testing of mechanical, electrical and electronic devices.--The department may, by regulation, classify specific devices as being mechanical, electrical or electronic. All mechanical, electrical or electronic devices shall be of a type approved by the department, which shall appoint stations for calibrating and testing the devices and may prescribe regulations as to the manner in which calibrations and tests shall be made. The certification and calibration of electronic devices under subsection (c)(3) shall also include the certification and calibration of all equipment, timing strips and other devices which are actually used with the particular electronic device being certified and calibrated. Electronic devices commonly referred to as electronic speed meters or radar shall have been tested for accuracy within a period of one year prior to the alleged violation. Other devices shall have been tested for accuracy within a period of 60 days prior to the alleged violation. A certificate from the station showing that the calibration and test were made within the required period and that the device was accurate shall be competent and prima facie evidence of those facts in every proceeding in which a violation of this title is charged.

For your ticket the of must provide all the necessary information since it consider prima facie evidence against you. Notice the section talks about the timing strips and he must present certification that they are measured properly. Many time in PA the officer was told the distance was x and he enters it into the VASCAR or stopwatch unit but has no independent fact it was in fact x feet.

In your case the Tracker uses the odometer to measure the distance so that means the officer must show the odometer was calibrated. In the same section it talks about odometer being cal once a year or since last tire change.

I agree that a speed without the other information means he lack the necessary evidence.

Most likely, you will walk in court the officer will approach you and ask you why you are fighting the ticket, if you give him some sort of response about not waiting the points, they usually offer a no point ticket in exchange of you just paying the fine, this is an easy route if offered.

However if you choose to fight the ticket, your line o question should cover the distance, how does he know the distance, why was it not on the ticket where it clear states it should be.

Also, the officer is required to present a number of documents to back up the prima facie evidence listed above and if he fails to do that it should be an automatic dismissal. But I have heard from others where the judge ignores PA Supreme Court Case laws and claim it is not required or copies not originals are okay.

send me a PM on here if you want more detailed information.

[Maestro64]

This might help, go to this website

[url=http://pa.findacase.com/research/wfrmFindaCase.aspx]FindACase™ Network Pa.[/url]

Do a search on ANTHONY MARTORANO in PA Appellate Courts, the first case that come up dated 1989 talks about the officer must provide more then his work about your speed, he must provide the prima facie evidence as called out by the law.

Also here is information on Discover in PA

[url]http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/234/chapter5/s573.html[/url]

[povoroznic]

Hello,
I just got cited for speeding and the object listed there is a tracker too.
I got pulled over and the officer said I was doing 68 in a 45 posted speed limit.I was in a car with 2 friends and all of us could of sworn I wasn`t driving more than 55-60. I was shocked when he said I was doing 68!!!
Right before Memorial Day this year I got cited for doing 37 in a 25 and just like this time the speed limit was 35 then suddenly changed to 25 and seconds later there`s a cop behind me ! I got cited with doing 12 over and that was at 10PM it was dark out, no one on the street and it wasn`t like I was endangering anybody. I went to court and got screwed in some way because the officer that cited me didn`t show up but I had made a deal with another officer before the time was up and I had to pay the fine but no points!
Anyway in my most recent case where i`m positive I wasn`t going faster than 60MPH I`m trying to figure out how does a tracker operates ????
Does anybody know ? Is there any way I can prove I wasn`t going 68 MPH ?
do witnesses count ?

[Maestro64]

Originally Posted by povoroznic

Hello,
I just got cited for speeding and the object listed there is a tracker too.
I got pulled over and the officer said I was doing 68 in a 45 posted speed limit.I was in a car with 2 friends and all of us could of sworn I wasn`t driving more than 55-60. I was shocked when he said I was doing 68!!!
Right before Memorial Day this year I got cited for doing 37 in a 25 and just like this time the speed limit was 35 then suddenly changed to 25 and seconds later there`s a cop behind me ! I got cited with doing 12 over and that was at 10PM it was dark out, no one on the street and it wasn`t like I was endangering anybody. I went to court and got screwed in some way because the officer that cited me didn`t show up but I had made a deal with another officer before the time was up and I had to pay the fine but no points!
Anyway in my most recent case where i`m positive I wasn`t going faster than 60MPH I`m trying to figure out how does a tracker operates ????
Does anybody know ? Is there any way I can prove I wasn`t going 68 MPH ?
do witnesses count ?

First, you should start your own thread

Next, you screwed yourself for making a deal when the officer did not show, you are not required to make any sort of deal, and they lead you to believe if you do not take the deal they bring you back, which is not the case.

Having a witness will not help, even if they say you were not going 68 and say 55, you just admitted to speeding and PA is an absolute speed limit state which mean 1 MPH over is speeding and they do not care whether it was prudent or safe like some other states allow. You have to make the officer prove he did everything correctly and within the law and got the correct speed and as such in PA no ticket can be written unless you are at lease 10MPH over when using a timing device. But at no time can you admit or agree you were even 1 MPH over the speed limit at that point your guilty even if the officer got it all wrong.

Lastly, tracker is a stop watch that allows the police to enter the distance between two points into the stop watch and then they measure your time and it calculates the speed. Pretty simple physics which is loaded with possible errors due to humans which is why PA give the 10MPH buffer.

[povoroznic]

i`m sorry i didn`t start my own thread but i`m new to this website and to this type of websites in general. I found your website and this thread on google.
However just a quick answer to your answers...

I knew that if the officer doesn`t show up the case would be dismissed but what if the officer would have sown up ! what then ?! i was going to get the points and I couldn`t risk that. So when this guy was called me in the private room and offered me the deal I was happy but later like any "greedy" person I thought I could have gotten away 100% without even having to pay the fine! Oh well .....

Also I know that as soon as I addmit that I was speeding I`m guilty.

Since witnesses won`t count what else can I do ?
I checked the ticket and it seemes to be complete and correct. I assume that the officer will provide all needed documentation for his tracker, what can I do ? can a lawyer do anything about it ?
I mean .... other than hoping he`s going to give me a deal again and change my violation to speeding under 5 miles over the speed limit there`s nothing I can do ! right ?
And what sucks is that i`m positive that this time there`s been an error somewhere somehow! because my speedometer didn`t show more than 60 MPH at the time i got pulled over!

[mcgovern06]

Last evening I received a speeding ticket from a tracker device- this is the first time I have ever heard of this device. I am kinda curious how these things work- and it was night time- I didn't think it was possible to be stopped by the "white line" speed at night time. I did question the cop where the speed sign was- in about a total mile of a stretch of a road there is one 25mph sign- the next sign is for 35. So where does one start and one begin? If anyone has any advice, I am willing to fight the ticket, I just don't want to look like an idiot going in there.
Thank you!

[HighwayMan]

Start your own thread please.

[mcgovern06]

last evening I did start and thread, and didn't have any replies- so I posted on this one-
The one from last nite was "speeding ticket by tracker". I would really appreciate any input in regards to this. Thank you!

[HighwayMan]

Maybe you didn't receive any replies because your thread does not exist. Maybe you thought you posted but didn't? I don't see your thread.

[mcgovern06]

If i search for threads posted by mcgovern06 i get the one i posted. Could I please just get some help?
Thank u!