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speeding ticket with a bonus

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heycal

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

Hi, my 17 year old daughter with a junior's NYS license was ticketed going 75 in a 55 mph zone on the Taconic about 2 hours north of our home. In an added wrinkle, she was given a second ticket for "other use of license", which was listed as a traffic violation. This resulted from the fact that since she did not have her actual license with her (she lost it, apparenty!), she presented the officer with an old learner's permit that she had once attempted in a half-assed manner to alter to make her appear older, then later decided better of it and tried to erase the alteration. (Apparently not well enough -- he noticed it, gave her the ticket, and confiscated the permit, saying he would be ripping it up.)

So, what to do? I see three basic options: A) Plead guilty by mail, B) Hire an attorney and follow his advice, C) shelp up to court on her appearance date and have her throw herself on the mercy of the court. The goal is to try and prevent any suspension of her license, and any insurance hikes.

Thoughts on one or both of these tickets, and what to do? How much might a lawyer cost, and it can this be handled without going that route?

Thanks.
 


justalayman

Senior Member
The goal is to try and prevent any suspension of her license, and any insurance hikes.
17 yo, a restricted license; 20 mph over the limit


I'm thinking a suspension might be the right thing.
 

sandyclaus

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

Hi, my 17 year old daughter with a junior's NYS license was ticketed going 75 in a 55 mph zone on the Taconic about 2 hours north of our home. In an added wrinkle, she was given a second ticket for "other use of license", which was listed as a traffic violation. This resulted from the fact that since she did not have her actual license with her (she lost it, apparenty!), she presented the officer with an old learner's permit that she had once attempted in a half-assed manner to alter to make her appear older, then later decided better of it and tried to erase the alteration. (Apparently not well enough -- he noticed it, gave her the ticket, and confiscated the permit, saying he would be ripping it up.)

So, what to do? I see three basic options: A) Plead guilty by mail, B) Hire an attorney and follow his advice, C) shelp up to court on her appearance date and have her throw herself on the mercy of the court. The goal is to try and prevent any suspension of her license, and any insurance hikes.

Thoughts on one or both of these tickets, and what to do? How much might a lawyer cost, and it can this be handled without going that route?

Thanks.
If you are a junior license holder, the State of New York will suspend your license if you commit a serious traffic violation. Under New York law, a “serious traffic violation” is one that is worth 3 or more points.

Speeding even just 1 MPH over the speed limit is a 3 point offense! Consequently, if you are a junior license holder and are convicted of speeding in New York, your junior license will be taken away for 60 days.

In addition, it is not just a violation, but a CRIMINAL OFFENSE to alter or forge any motor vehicle document, including a driver license or permit. This can result in suspension or revocation of the driver license and criminal prosecution resulting in a fine or imprisonment.

Her chances of earning that suspension are pretty cut and dried and a done deal. The only question is for how long, and whether or not the prosecutor seeks criminal charges for her little stunt to alter her license and make her appear older. The best chance she will have for the least harsh penalty will be to hire an attorney to defend her. We're probably talking about several hundred dollars, maybe more for the criminal offense.

Instead of trying to figure out to get her off without a penalty, you SHOULD be holding her fully responsible and accountable for her actions. Let her suffer the consequences of her poor judgment. Make her pay for the attorney fees. Make her pay for the increased insurance costs for her mistakes. If she doesn't have a job, it may well be time for her to get one and to teach her some responsibility. If you don't let her learn the hard way, just imagine the kinds of things she will do next - especially if she knows her parents will come and bail her out without consequences.
 

heycal

Junior Member
Not looking for parenting advice, folks. I'll deal with that part myself. I'm just interested in the options and ramifications.

The attempted-forgery thing is listed as "other use of license", and the box next to "tr inf' is checked (presumably traffic infraction), and not the misdemeanor or felony box. (The officer did give her a big lecture about it all, but said it would not involve any points on her driving record.) It's also something that can be plead to be mail if desired, as opposed to any sort of mandatory appearance, just like the other ticket.
 
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quincy

Senior Member
Not looking for parenting advice, folks. I'll deal with that part myself. I'm just interested in the options and ramifications.

The attempted-forgery thing is listed as "other use of license", and the box next to "violation' is checked, not the misdemeanor nor felony box. (The officer did give her a big lecture about it all, but said it would not involve any points on her driving record.) It's also something that can be plead to be mail if desired, as opposed to any sort of mandatory appearance, just like the other ticket.
The parenting advice was a "bonus" and was smart advice.

You listed your options and you were given the ramifications by sandyclaus.

Option B is your smartest option. Your daughter needs an attorney. I believe your goals - of avoiding a license suspension and an insurance rate hike - are probably unrealistic, but let the attorney you consult review the facts. The attorney can better tell you what to expect after this personal review.
 

sandyclaus

Senior Member
Not looking for parenting advice, folks. I'll deal with that part myself. I'm just interested in the options and ramifications....
And you appear to be doing SUCH a fabulous job at that so far... NOT.

Again, instead of trying to FIX the problem for the child, actually do some parenting and TEACH that choices have consequences, and that by making the WRONG ones, they have to pay the price for it. Otherwise, the REST of us law-abiding folk are the ones who will end up dealing with your failure to appropriate parent your child.
 

heycal

Junior Member
The parenting advice was a "bonus" and was smart advice.

You listed your options and you were given the ramifications by sandyclaus.

Option B is your smartest option. Your daughter needs an attorney. I believe your goals - of avoiding a license suspension and an insurance rate hike - are probably unrealistic, but let the attorney you consult review the facts. The attorney can better tell you what to expect after this personal review.
Actually, I'm not sure Sandyclaus has a grasp of the "other use of license" ticket, and thus the ramifications of it.

In any case, I appreciate your input. I read somwhere that not all speeding tickets result in insurance hikes but only those over certain speeds. If true, and if a reduction in speed could be worked out in some sort of plea deal, that might help on that front.

As for the suspension, is that pretty much an automatic thing no matter what for the most part? It's not the end of the world -- at least to me -- if she can't drive for 60 days, but I'd rather avoid having an official suspension on her driving record if any way avoidable. She's gonna be suffering in plenty of other ways for this as it is, and spending a lot of her own money.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Actually, I'm not sure Sandyclaus has a grasp of the "other use of license" ticket, and thus the ramifications of it.

In any case, I appreciate your input. I read somwhere that not all speeding tickets result in insurance hikes but only those over certain speeds. If true, and if a reduction in speed could be worked out in some sort of plea deal, that might help on that front.

As for the suspension, is that pretty much an automatic thing no matter what for the most part? It's not the end of the world -- at least to me -- if she can't drive for 60 days, but I'd rather avoid having an official suspension on her driving record if any way avoidable. She's gonna be suffering in plenty of other ways for this as it is, and spending a lot of her own money.

I'd rather my kids dealt with suspension rather than getting into the mindset that you can buy yourself out of trouble. Even if that's not your intention, it can be interpreted that way.

Y'know?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
17 yo, a restricted license; 20 mph over the limit


I'm thinking a suspension might be the right thing.
Agree with you wholeheartedly. In addition to forgery (the learner's permit) and possibly identity theft (altering the age). This child is a budding criminal. She also needs grounded. Getting her off the hook is not going to do wonders for her future. Except show that her parent will bail her out and she can keep breaking the law. Fabulous.
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
...on the Taconic about 2 hours north of our home.
Where might that be and what time of the day was it?

C) shelp up to court on her appearance date and have her throw herself on the mercy of the court.
That's not an appearance date it's a return date. The ticket must be answered by that date. If you go there on that date you will just have to make another trip back to court on another date.

How much might a lawyer cost,
We have no way to tell you - you have to make some calls.

and it can this be handled without going that route?
That is entirely up to you.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Not looking for parenting advice, folks. I'll deal with that part myself. I'm just interested in the options and ramifications.

The attempted-forgery thing is listed as "other use of license", and the box next to "tr inf' is checked (presumably traffic infraction), and not the misdemeanor or felony box. (The officer did give her a big lecture about it all, but said it would not involve any points on her driving record.) It's also something that can be plead to be mail if desired, as opposed to any sort of mandatory appearance, just like the other ticket.
The interesting thing is you appear to have known she forged a false learner's permit and yet she still had it. Why is that? Did you just say, honey don't do that again, and let the little angel do whatever? I note she was still driving even though that was a criminal act. And why do teens make themselves older? Oh yeah. To go drinking and buy cigarettes. One of those two. So what was your little precious attempting to do with it? Your child has issues. You apparently also have issues due to your lack of ability to parent.
 
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