Speeding Ticket from TBTA, SI Expressway@Verrezano Br

[m3352]

NY, was pulled over in January for the first time in my life. Got a ticket doing 73 in a 40. I was unaware of the speed limit and was keeping up with traffic until everyone spotted the officer and I didn't. Due to the excessive speed (31 mph or more over the limit) the I am REQUIRED to appear in court +9pts + additional fees. I have no clue what to do/expect. If I could plead guilty online, pay the fees I wouldn't be concerned. However, I am very concerned about the points and I have no clue what to expect in court. I have plea not guilty online as was suggested by a friend, however I am not sure that is the best choice. Any opinions? BTW, how do I check the speed limit in the area on that specific date? Everyone is saying the speed limit is 45 and not the 40 as stated on my ticket, the 5 mph difference would make a huge difference.

 

[HighwayMan]

I was unaware of the speed limit and was keeping up with traffic

You were given notice of the speed limit via posted signs. Not paying attention to them is not a legal justification for speeding. Keeping up with the flow of traffic is something a judge in TVB hears a thousand times a day and it means nothing in terms of making things easier for you. It is NOT an excuse anyone wants to hear.

I have no clue what to expect in court.

The judges in the Staten Island TVB are a tough bunch. If found guilty expect a higher than minimum penalty. If judge Levine hears your case you may even get a 30 or 60 day suspension out of it.

BTW, how do I check the speed limit in the area on that specific date? Everyone is saying the speed limit is 45 and not the 40 as stated on my ticket.

Who is "everyone"?

Why should the limit have changed? Was there construction going on? Were the signs temporary? It's been a long time since I've been to that particular location so I don't know what the limit normally is. You may be able to find the information online somewhere. I found a website once that listed the speed limits on different roadways in NYC - I have no idea what it was but Google is your friend.

 

[You Are Guilty]

I can't believe Levine is still on the bench but a quick google search shows, yup, still there somehow: http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/staten_island_traffic_judge_or.html

30+ over definitely sucks (in addition to the fines, don't forget the DRP surcharge) but I don't think there is an official source for speed limits online. This site (http://www.nycroads.com/exits/staten-island/) suggests it might have been a 45 zone, but google maps, which has the construction in progress, shows a 20mph work zone limit: http://i.imgur.com/ELM1NDT.jpg.

Your best bet is to FOIL the DOT for the actual limit at the specific location on the date of the offense, and, depending on what they say, use that to contest the ticket (or throw yourself on the mercy of the court if it was, in fact, a 20mph zone).

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/about/foil.shtml

 

[HighwayMan]

I can't believe Levine is still on the bench but a quick google search shows, yup, still there somehow: http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/staten_island_traffic_judge_or.html

Why? You expecting him to be retired? He's not that old.

The website I referred to was not official. Sorry if I gave that impression. I did find it to be very accurate to the extent that I could check it.

OP - what's wrong with taking a ride back to the location and seeing what the limit is? Chances are unless the signs are temporary the limit is the same now as it was then. But take YAG's advice about getting the info from DOT. You may need to ask for a new date when you go to court if you don't have the info in time.

So you got the ticket in January and you waited three months to ask about it???

 

[HighwayMan]

...suggests it might have been a 45 zone, but google maps, which has the construction in progress, shows a 20mph work zone limit...

Hmmm, just noticed this. If the limit is 45 then the work zone can't be 20, it would have to be at least 25. The limit can't drop more than 20 mph when there is a change.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Hmmm, just noticed this. If the limit is 45 then the work zone can't be 20, it would have to be at least 25. The limit can't drop more than 20 mph when there is a change.

You know, you said this once before previously and it caught my eye because I had never heard of it. I took a quick spin through the VTL but didn't have any luck coming up with support. Do you know where this rule comes from? (Is it NYCRR and not a state statute?) The reason I ask is that on several bridges (Verrazano and Whitestone come to mind), there is a much greater drop than 20mph from the highway limit when you hit the toll plaza. (I think I even saw a 10mph sign on the Bronx side of the Whitestone across from that hourly hotel that they're protesting with the giant inflatable rat).

Either way, it seems like good information to know and I can't find crap.

Why? You expecting him to be retired? He's not that old.

Retired? Ha. Forced to resign is what happens to most people who are jerks in their job. (I guess being a rainmaker for the TVB has its perks.)

 

[HighwayMan]

You know, you said this once before...

I think you're right. Damn, I can't remember where I saw that. I am going to try to locate this. I wonder if it's in the NYC Traffic Rules. Hmmm. This will be my new quest.

I do notice that it seems to be the case everywhere I have noticed, except...

(I think I even saw a 10mph sign on the Bronx side of the Whitestone ...

Yes, the plaza is a posted 10 mph. Totally insane and as far as I'm concerned totally unenforceable. I would base that on the fact that TBTA doesn't exactly have rocket scientists working for them, and I wouldn't be surprised that they would lack any knowledge of such a law or rule (geez if it even exists!).

Retired? Ha. Forced to resign is what happens to most people who are jerks in their job. (I guess being a rainmaker for the TVB has its perks.)

Well, I don't consider him a jerk, although he is embarrassing sometimes. He once explained to me why he is the way he is and I can understand him better after hearing what he had to say.

All of the cops love him for obvious reasons. He certainly is a real character.

 

[You Are Guilty]

I'm going to try a more comprehensive search on Lexis to see if we can get to the bottom of this issue. Will post back with results, hopefully before I blow through a toll plaza at 45mph over the "limit".

And LeVine is certainly amusing, as long as it's not you being excoriated at the time. But there is a thing called "judicial temperament" which he could use some work on.

 

[You Are Guilty]

One step closer to solving the mystery? After reading way too much of the NYSRR on speed limits (TItle 15, Section 1000.__ for those following along), the only reference I could find to minimum speed limit differences (as opposed to minimum absolute speed limits - very different), was in VTL1180(f). Coincidentally enough, it also references a "20mph difference":

(f) Except as provided in subdivision (g) of this section and except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subdivision (a) or (e) of this section or when a lower maximum speed limit has been established, no person shall drive a vehicle through a highway construction or maintenance work area [fig 1] at a speed in excess of the posted work area speed limit. The agency having jurisdiction over the affected street or highway may establish work area speed limits which are less than the normally posted speed limits; provided, [highlight]however, that such normally posted speed limit may exceed the work area speed limit by no more than twenty miles per hour[/highlight]; and provided further that no such work area speed limit may be established at less than twenty-five miles per hour.

Now, granted, this is limited only to work areas, which is sort of logically inconsistent (if it's a good idea to have a limit to the limit drop in work areas, why isn't it a good idea to do it everywhere?), but it's a start.

Now, the NYSRR has several dozen counties with their own individual rules that I have not yet looked over and I haven't even touched the NYCRR yet, so will continue the search when I have some more free time.

 

[HighwayMan]

Now I'm really confused. What is NYSRR? A quick look for it references only New York State Retriever (as in dog) Rescue!

I'm familiar with NYCRR (the Official Compilation of Codes, Rules, and Regulations of the State of New York) but NYSRR??

 

[You Are Guilty]

NYS "Codes Rules and Regs": http://government.westlaw.com/linkedslice/default.asp?SP=nycrr-1000

NYC Rules and Regs (aka Admin Code):
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=@LLADC+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=42385782+&TARGET=VIEW

Don't ask me, I just work here.

 

[HighwayMan]

Well YOU brought it up!

Sounds like you were actually referring to NYCRR.

I've been in court for criminal summonses I wrote for various NYCRR violations and even the judges and court personnel have no idea what it is. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "New York City Rules and Regulations", but there's no such thing.

The section you quoted appears to be from the VTL.

In any event when I have more time later in the week I'll do some more poking around.

 

[You Are Guilty]

I did quote the VTL, but it you look at Title 15 of the NY Codes Rules Regs link (not the Admin Code), you'll see it's an entirely different beast than either the VTL or the NYCRR. (Does not seem too applicable to NYC though - more focused on the non-NYC counties.)

And if you think judges aren't familiar with the NYCRR, you should see what happens when the really rare stuff gets written up. Not that long ago, I had an ABC violation for a client that the judge absolutely refused to believe was an actual NY statute. Then there was an unsafe equipment violation written under some weird code (TBTA?) that no one could even find. Fun times.

 

[HighwayMan]

I did quote the VTL, but it you look at Title 15 of the NY Codes Rules Regs link (not the Admin Code), you'll see it's an entirely different beast than either the VTL or the NYCRR.

But the NYCRR IS the "NY Codes Rules Regs".

Then there was an unsafe equipment violation written under some weird code (TBTA?) that no one could even find.

The TBTA Rules and Regulations are part of (I don't know the title off hand) NYCRR.

NYCRR is all of the New York State agency rules and regulations.

 

[You Are Guilty]

I see the issue and it's totally my fault - I (incorrectly) refer to the NYC Admin Code as NYCRR and have for years. (I think it came from one of the online search database's name for the Admin Code being "NYCRR" and it just sort of stuck).

For the edification of anyone else still reading this, the "official" NYCRR is the state code, and the NYC version is the "Administrative Code". (Both can have overlapping jurisdiction in NYC, but not, apparently, in the case of a Verrazano-bridge-construction-project-speed-limit ticket).

And by now, OP was probably convicted anyway