Speeding Tkt in School Zone

[cashuser]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I received a speeding ticket this morning. I was stopped at a red light and had driven about 125 yards, reaching a speed of approx 35mph, in front of a High School. The school bell rings at 7:28 and the ticket was timed at 7:28. There were no students or school buses around the campus. The road is a wide, 5-line thoroughfare, traffic was very light and visibility was very good. Before the officer stopped me, he was standing on the sidewalk writing a ticket for another motorist. (Not utilizing the radar gun, as stated in the citation). As I left the red-light at the intersection, he strode out into the road in front of me and pulled me over. He asked if I knew what the speed limit on that road was. I said it's 45mph. (posted) He answered "Wrong! It's 25 and you're doing 45 in a school zone". He cited me under CVC 22350 and wrote on the ticket a speed of 45mph. All the speed limit signs in every school zone read "25mph When Children Are Present". Since there were no children - or other pedestrians - present at the time, do I have a case to fight or should I just pay the fine and go to traffic school?

Thanks for your response!

[cyjeff]

If you say no children were present, the judge will ask two questions.

One, were the yellow lights on the signs blinking?

Two, how do you know there were no children present?

[cashuser]

There were no yellow lights flashing (there never are at this location). Children were not present because (a) school begins at 7:30 and they were already on the school campus and (b) none were visible on the road or sidewalks at the time of the stop

[JIMinCA]

Originally Posted by cyjeff

If you say no children were present, the judge will ask two questions.

One, were the yellow lights on the signs blinking?

Two, how do you know there were no children present?

It is NOT the OPs burden to show that children were NOT present... it is the State's burden to show that they were.

Also, you should be very suspicious of how he determined your speed. Sounds like this is just a cop with a chip on his shoulder and a "I'm the law" attitude. Hell yes you should go to court. Have him justify just how he determined your speed with any legitimacy AND how he determined that the speed limit was 25.

The 25mph speed limit in school zones is established by VC22352 which states the speed limit will be 25:

(B) When approaching or passing a school building or the grounds
thereof, contiguous to a highway and posted with a standard "SCHOOL"
warning sign, while children are going to or leaving the school
either during school hours or during the noon recess period. The
prima facie limit shall also apply when approaching or passing any
school grounds which are not separated from the highway by a fence,
gate, or other physical barrier while the grounds are in use by
children and the highway is posted with a standard "SCHOOL" warning
sign. For purposes of this subparagraph, standard "SCHOOL" warning
signs may be placed at any distance up to 500 feet away from school
grounds.

Since he did not write you for 22352, he did not cite you for violating a school zone speed limit.

VC section 22350 simply says that you were driving at a speed that presented a danger to persons or property. Since you were driving under or at the prima facie speed limit, he must prove that your speed was in fact creating a danger. He cannot rely on the speed limit as prima facie evidence. So, since it was a multi-lane highway... no pedestrians present and light traffic... I am assuming he will have a very hard time doing this.

I hope you kick his ass...

[I_Got_Banned]

Interesting that 22352 actually does specify the times that the 25mph speed limit is considered in effect.

I wonder if that criteria also applies when the speed limit sign states "when children are present"?

I had always assumed that the "when children are present" applied to the entire time that children are at school.

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by JIMinCA

I hope you kick his ass...

Violence is NEVER the answer!

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by I_Got_Banned

Violence is NEVER the answer!

Okay...sit down.

Oh...you are sitting down.

I am defending JimInCA.

*earthquake*

I am sure he meant it figuratively.

Jim...Jim...are you okay?

[cashuser]

Originally Posted by JIMinCA

It is NOT the OPs burden to show that children were NOT present... it is the State's burden to show that they were.

Also, you should be very suspicious of how he determined your speed. Sounds like this is just a cop with a chip on his shoulder and a "I'm the law" attitude. Hell yes you should go to court. Have him justify just how he determined your speed with any legitimacy AND how he determined that the speed limit was 25.

The 25mph speed limit in school zones is established by VC22352 which states the speed limit will be 25:


Since he did not write you for 22352, he did not cite you for violating a school zone speed limit.

VC section 22350 simply says that you were driving at a speed that presented a danger to persons or property. Since you were driving under or at the prima facie speed limit, he must prove that your speed was in fact creating a danger. He cannot rely on the speed limit as prima facie evidence. So, since it was a multi-lane highway... no pedestrians present and light traffic... I am assuming he will have a very hard time doing this.

I hope you kick his ass...

I plan on kicking his ass...only thing is, it may well come down to a "he said/she said" scenario in court, since I have no witnesses to the incident. (I do, however, have almost an entire school's worth of character witnesses as to the idiocy of this particular cop! Not that they could be of actual assistance in court!) So, I may have a harder time disproving his word than he will have proving it! Unless his reputation precedes him in the court arena! Would it be best for me to write a TBD first and hope the judge rules in my favor, or should I just show up for the appointed trial date and plead my case in court?

[JIMinCA]

It is NOT your word against his. You were not charged with a 25mph speed zone. You were charged with 22350 in a 45mph zone. If he wanted to charge you with doing 45 in a 25, he should have used 22352. He is the one with the burden to overcome... not you. Don't act like it is the other way around.