Stop Sign

[MYCool]

What is the name of your state? MI

I was driving downtown with my sister (witness to all this). Basically I was driving along a highway service drive and came up to an off-ramp with a stop-sign so that cars coming from the off-ramp can get off safely. I get to the stop sign and stop, check to see if any cars are coming off and none are. So I drive along and right after the stop sign a cop comes out and pulls me over. He asks me what year my car is and I tell him a 2002. He then asks for my drivers license and I give it to him. 14 seconds later he comes back with a ticket that says "STOP SIGN". I then told him "Sir. I don't understand, I stopped at the stop sign." to which he replies "You stopped after the stop sign, instructions are on the back" and leaves.

There are a couple of things:
1) It is not possible to be able to clearly see traffic from the off-ramp if your car stops right on the stop sign, so I stop maybe 3 feet after it (and by 3 feet I mean the hood of my car, not the tail).
2) The cop had this ticket prewritten and filled in my information on it (which is why he asked what year my car is, because the year is not on the car as some cars have the year marked on them). He did NOT mark me up for anything such as "Rolling stop" or the such, which I did not do anyways.
3) My sister is witness to all this. She saw me stop, then proceed as I should have and saw how fast he filled out that ticket.
4) He didn't even bother to ask for my registration or insurance...

I don't mind paying for tickets that I deserve, but this is a cheap blow. My question is how I should take this on. I don't want to upset the judge by accusing the cop of just giving me a prewritten ticket, do I? Or will that not upset the judge? With all this info, what should I do!?

[mrtoledo]

Originally Posted by MYCool

There are a couple of things:
1) It is not possible to be able to clearly see traffic from the off-ramp if your car stops right on the stop sign, so I stop maybe 3 feet after it (and by 3 feet I mean the hood of my car, not the tail).

Michigan law states you must come to a complete stop behind the line, then proceed forward and stop again if you view was obstructed at the point of the sign.

I live in the Detroit area and see this happen all of the time. All of the signs are poorly placed, but stopping pass the line is against the law.

See the following link
[url]http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ROAD_SKILLS_TEST_STUDY_GUIDE_05-02_21935_7.pdf[/url]

Originally Posted by MYCool

2) The cop had this ticket prewritten and filled in my information on it (which is why he asked what year my car is, because the year is not on the car as some cars have the year marked on them).

What cars have the year marked on them in plain view? If you know how to read a VIN you can determine the year, some taillights have a year printed on them, but if the cars lights haven't changed since the previous year you can't always go by that.

Usually they ask the year to see if it matches the registration. If it is wrong it will set up a red flag that the car may not belong to you.

[MYCool]

Originally Posted by mrtoledo

Michigan law states you must come to a complete stop behind the line, then proceed forward and stop again if you view was obstructed at the point of the sign.

I live in the Detroit area and see this happen all of the time. All of the signs are poorly placed, but stopping pass the line is against the law.

See the following link
[url]http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ROAD_SKILLS_TEST_STUDY_GUIDE_05-02_21935_7.pdf[/url]




What cars have the year marked on them in plain view? If you know how to read a VIN you can determine the year, some taillights have a year printed on them, but if the cars lights haven't changed since the previous year you can't always go by that.

Usually they ask the year to see if it matches the registration. If it is wrong it will set up a red flag that the car may not belong to you.

I'm not sure, I assumed some cars have the year printed on them. Also, I don't think he asked what year my car is to verify it with the registration since he did not look even ask for the registration...

I'm still unsure as to what aspect of this should I persue because I do intend to fight this one all the way.

[mrtoledo]

I am not an attorney, but if you fight it, I wouldn't tell the judge you stopped three feet after the sign. Because technically that is in violation of the state motor vehicle code, and you just admitted guilt.

Was this in Detroit? City Cop or MSP? (Not that it matters just curious)

[MYCool]

Originally Posted by mrtoledo

I am not an attorney, but if you fight it, I wouldn't tell the judge you stopped three feet after the sign. Because technically that is in violation of the state motor vehicle code, and you just admitted guilt.

Was this in Detroit? City Cop or MSP? (Not that it matters just curious)

City Cop (Warren)

[MYCool]

Originally Posted by mrtoledo

I am not an attorney, but if you fight it, I wouldn't tell the judge you stopped three feet after the sign. Because technically that is in violation of the state motor vehicle code, and you just admitted guilt.

Was this in Detroit? City Cop or MSP? (Not that it matters just curious)

Oh, and I guess now a good question is that since I wasn't supposed to be past the sign, should I even bother taking photos and showing that it is not possible to see cars getting off the ramp where the sign is positioned?

[mrtoledo]

When you said Downtown I assumed Detroit. You got busted by the Warren Traffic Citation Machine-- generates more tax dollars than GM does for the city (not quite).

Like I said before I am no attorney, but the law says you should stop at (behind) the sign/line and if you can not see clearly you should creap foward to where you can see clearly, and stop again if necessary then proceed.

I don't know if you can or can't argue a bad sign placement, maybe someone else has an opinion.