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Stop sign violation in VA

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Sdrive

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Virginia


This incident happened in my neighborhood in the early morning hours of November (about 7am) on my way to work. This happened as I was pulling up from a street (25mph) into a road (35mph) that leads to a highway (the ramp is 25mph). Couple of descriptions of the context - it was dark, enough for people to be using headlights, wet(from a previous day rain), and slightly foggy. The location of the stop is very woody, offers no visibility beyond 400 feet on the left. I stop and seeing there was no car on either side, decide to turn. As I turn, this car comes around the corner of the road ( I am entering) driving about 30mph with headlights off (the car was hard to spot). Anyway, I was committed on making the turn, did spot the car and assessing that the car is about 350-400 feet away, continued with turn. This is a very safe negotiation that allows more than 4 sec distance between the cars after the turn. The car was about 300 feet behind when I saw in my rear view mirror. The car then suddenly accelerates and pulls up right behind my car and tailgates. After a while I realize it is a police car. We negotiate about 3/4 of a mile before I am pulled over.

When I am pulled over, the officer tickets me(46.2-821) citing that I "whooshed" over the stop sign, which, of course I disagree but when the officerinsists, I do not debate and say "I definitely remember braking and slowing down.." and before I can complete, The officer says " that is a stop sign", I say "..and I stopped." Officer says "No you didn't". Finally after ticketing shes says "I am sorry I had to ticket instead of a warning". I am late for work and ticketed, so I don't bother to ask why.

District Court date- the officer testifies that I was five car (40-50ft?) distance away(!!) when I turned, and that it was almost an accident (!!) and selectively narrates about the slowing down portion and makes no mention that I had infact disagreed that I had not stopped.

I was shocked to hear such a different recollection from the officer (as they usually log and keep good records). The courts verdict was obvious. How can I defend that !

So, obviously I have now appealed it in Circuit court. Now, I am seeking some advice :

1. Can I use 46.2-880 as reference for braking distances?
2. Even though I am an engineer, will I be allowed to ask questions that relate to general physics and calculations of movement of a car (no expert assessments) or do I still need an expert witness?
3. Can I call the on-board police video (if available) as evidence?
4. Now the vital question- the weakest link is - the 'yielding' scenario. The code says "Before proceeding, he
shall yield the right-of-way to the driver of any vehicle approaching on such other highway from
either direction. ". The critical portion is "before proceeding" and that there was no car when I had decided to proceed. I understand that is ambiguous to debate, and am looking for advice.

My overall perspective is I made a safe maneuver like in a city street (CA DMV recommends half a block distance which is about the same distance I was, and which is how this road behaves during work hours as it gets very busy). There was no "near miss", but the officer had actually accelerated to come up to me (Again , how do I prove this?) and obviously the turn was safe. Having practised safe driving for 18yrs, I find it discouraging to pay for a crime I did not commit.

All advice and criticism is appreciated.

Thanks
 


JIMinCA

Member
You will not be allowed to introduce new evidence in your appeal. It isn't a second trial. You will only be able to use the evidence that was presented during the original trial and argue that the court erred in finding you guilty for some reason. That reason could be false testimony. I am helping a friend with an appeal right now where the cop testified to things that simply was not true. However, I have irrefutable evidence of his false testimony, so it is easy. Yours may not be so easy.
 

Hey There

Member
12-28-07

Sdrive,

In Virginia according to information in "Beat Your Ticket" published by NOLO (2005) a driver who has been ruled against at the General District Court in Virginiacan appeal to the Circuit Court for a new trial (trial de novo). He may also request a jury trial.
It is NECESSARY to check with the court clerk at the court where the driver was convicted, for the TIME LIMITS to file for a new trial to the Circuit Court.
The court should be able to provide the form to file along with the instructions for the appeal procedure.
(Section 16.1-132 thru 16.1-136) is listed under appeal procedures for Virginia.
But then you said you already appealed.:)

A trial de novo IS as if the original trial never happened.:)


Some lawyers will consult on a one time basis to explain your options.
Usually a $50.00 fee up to $75.00 is considered reasonable.

Because this is a new trial Discovery MAY be requested? or A Request for Public Records may be made pertaining to your case.
Information on Discovery can be found by going to Google and typing in Discovery for Traffic Tickets which brings up several websites.

In answer to your question s (#1,2,3,4,) a cited driver can use all evidence he thinks will prove that he isn't guilty of the violation he was charged with.
I am assuming that the state you are referring to is Virginia(VA)
I am slightly confused because in the last paragraph you say
**********I made a safe maneuver like in a city street (CA DMV ***********Is reference to the CA DMV a typo?
If VA is the state you were cited in than the above information should be correct. Because you are posting a defence as if conducting a new trial I assume your state is VA. General information on preparing a defence can be obtained at the local library by referring to the book published by NOLO on continuances, discovery, requesting a different judge (if you think the judge at the first trial was biased) preparing for trial, cross-examining the officer at trial. In Chapter 3, pages 7 thru 9 describes how to prove an element of your ticket is missing, challenge the officer's observation and conclusion of what happened etc. as well as the Law of Necessity which is recognized in 50 states. (To avoid harm the driver had no option but to do what was safe)
Some libraries even carry a set of books with a condensed version of case law.Invaluable.
General information on the web on fighting traffic tickets can be obtained by typing in Key Words such as (Speeding Ticket -- Fighting or Plea Bargaining).
In addition you've had at least one experience in court which helps when preparing a defence the second time around.

Your Post:The location of the stop is very woody, offers NO visibility beyond 400 feet on the left. I stop and seeing there was no car on either side, decide to******(obstructed view )
In the first trial did the officer testify that there was a shrieking of brakes, that tire marks were measured, that a horn sounded, that the other car had to take evasive action to avoid an accident?

If CA is the state you filed an appeal in as indicated in the last paragraph ,then the information JIMin CA. posted is correct.

Let us know how this goes
Best Regards,
Hey There
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
You will not be allowed to introduce new evidence in your appeal. It isn't a second trial. You will only be able to use the evidence that was presented during the original trial and argue that the court erred in finding you guilty for some reason. That reason could be false testimony. I am helping a friend with an appeal right now where the cop testified to things that simply was not true. However, I have irrefutable evidence of his false testimony, so it is easy. Yours may not be so easy.

Sorry JIM, incorrect. An appeal of a GDC traffic conviction case is heard DE NOVO in circuit court in the commonwealth of Virginia. It's as if the original case never happened. Everything starts over and the CA will appear (where as unless the defendant was represented by counsel the first time around, only the arresting officer was present).
 

Sdrive

Junior Member
Of Discovery and CA DMV

Hello Hey There
That was some valuable piece of advice.

Because this is a new trial Discovery MAY be requested? or A Request for Public Records may be made pertaining to your case.
Information on Discovery can be found by going to Google and typing in Discovery for Traffic Tickets which brings up several websites.
I think discovery is something I should gain from - specially if the officer's on board video was alive.

I
n answer to your question s (#1,2,3,4,) a cited driver can use all evidence he thinks will prove that he isn't guilty of the violation he was charged with.
I am assuming that the state you are referring to is Virginia(VA)
I am slightly confused because in the last paragraph you say
**********I made a safe maneuver like in a city street (CA DMV ***********Is reference to the CA DMV a typo?
I jumped a step there , and sorry for the misunderstanding. The prob is VA DMV and VA codes guidance for driving is to yield for ANY car on the highway /road one has to merge on.
I feel this as very broad like applying on a 25mph highway and say the car is about600 feet away could still be ticketed technically. I did not find DMV recommendations nor code recommendations for city driving. My reference to CA DMV was because they do have such a measure and where about 300-400 feet is safe for inertnal roads. Now just from a safety standpoint, I find that I was safe too (given this road was a suburb internal road too)

If VA is the state you were cited in than the above information should be correct. Because you are posting a defence as if conducting a new trial I assume your state is VA. General information on preparing a defence can be obtained at the local library by referring to the book published by NOLO on continuances, discovery, requesting a different judge (if you think the judge at the first trial was biased) preparing for trial, cross-examining the officer at trial. In Chapter 3, pages 7 thru 9 describes how to prove an element of your ticket is missing, challenge the officer's observation and conclusion of what happened etc. as well as the Law of Necessity which is recognized in 50 states. (To avoid harm the driver had no option but to do what was safe)
Some libraries even carry a set of books with a condensed version of case law.Invaluable.
General information on the web on fighting traffic tickets can be obtained by typing in Key Words such as (Speeding Ticket -- Fighting or Plea Bargaining).
In addition you've had at least one experience in court which helps when preparing a defence the second time around.
Invaluable. Thanks!

Your Post:The location of the stop is very woody, offers NO visibility beyond 400 feet on the left. I stop and seeing there was no car on either side, decide to******(obstructed view )
In the first trial did the officer testify that there was a shrieking of brakes, that tire marks were measured, that a horn sounded, that the other car had to take evasive action to avoid an accident?
You said it! Actually at the court I misunderstood 5 car distance as five driving car distance - that was close enough. But later I relaized the term is used for static car distances. The office actually did not testify any of these but said it was a near miss and I got in front. No there is no evidence of the same from the officer (and cannot come too).

Again, I will start with the discovery and work on the invaluable tips.

Thanks to alll others too who have responded on the matter.

I will post the final result.

Best regards and wishes for a Great new year.

Sdrive
 

JIMinCA

Member
Sorry JIM, incorrect. An appeal of a GDC traffic conviction case is heard DE NOVO in circuit court in the commonwealth of Virginia. It's as if the original case never happened. Everything starts over and the CA will appear (where as unless the defendant was represented by counsel the first time around, only the arresting officer was present).


Ron,

Wow... if that is true, I am amazed. It's hard to believe that you can be convicted and get a second trial (De Novo) after that conviction. However, the commonwealth does lots of things differently than other states. You sound like you know what you are talking about, so I will yield to your experience. However, I would suggest the OP confirm.
 

Sdrive

Junior Member
Sorry JIM, incorrect. An appeal of a GDC traffic conviction case is heard DE NOVO in circuit court in the commonwealth of Virginia. It's as if the original case never happened. Everything starts over and the CA will appear (where as unless the defendant was represented by counsel the first time around, only the arresting officer was present).
Hello Flying Ron,
Can you please explain what
CA will appear
means. I was unpreresented and only the officer was present. Does CA mean the Court Attorney or the Prosecuting Attorney?

Thanks
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What the CA DMV (or any other DMV for that matter) "recommends" means nothing. You have to go by the LAW.
The video from the car doesn't run constantly. Don't count on that.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Ron,

Wow... if that is true, I am amazed. It's hard to believe that you can be convicted and get a second trial (De Novo) after that conviction. However, the commonwealth does lots of things differently than other states. You sound like you know what you are talking about, so I will yield to your experience. However, I would suggest the OP confirm.
The GDC traffic court is a real informal thing. If you don't show up with representation, then the judge just asks for the cop's story (or if it involved an accident where the police issued a subpoena to the other involved party...that I find is really adding insult to injury here...first some clown breaks the law and runs into you, then you got to go appear in court to testify in his traffic case) and then your rebuttal. I've watched it a ton. 95% of the time it goes in the cop's favor. Sometimes the judge gets soft on a good excuse. More often than not, you get the offer of the deferral to traffic school.

You don't have to take my freaking word for it. The procedures are published by the individual courts at courts.state.va.us.

CA = COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY. Virginia doesn't refer to itself as a state. It's what other states would call the District Attorney or State's Attorney.

Zig I'm not talking about either California or Canada :)
 

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