Stopped for running red light, also charged with driving with a suspended license...

[asherzai21]

Hello, and thanks in advance for your responses!

I was driving in California a few months ago. I was stopped near downtown driving northbound on the one-way portion of Figueroa St. (near downtown) for allegedly running a red light. After I was stopped, I was notified that my CA license was suspended...my car was impounded and I was charged with running a red light and driving with a suspended license. I requested my day in court.

Now, here is my defense: I have taken pictures of the intersection at which I allegedly ran the red light. The officer in the patrol car that pulled me over was past the intersection in question (facing northbound) and claims that, after hearing the loud roar of my engine as I crossed the intersection, he saw that my car had entered the intersection after the light turned red. I intend to prove that there is no way that that officer could have witnessed the light turn red before I crossed the intersection. I KNOW and will prove that the officer could not have viewed the light turn red because THERE IS NO TRAFFIC LIGHT POST FOR THE SOUTHBOUND SIDE OF THAT INTERSECTION! This means that even if the officer had spotted me in his rearview mirror crossing the intersection, there would have been no traffic light that he could have used as a reference point to determine that I entered the intersection after the light turned red (he couldn't have used the light post on the northbound side of the intersection because it's not viewable to those who are on the north of the intersection in question; only a southbound light post can be seen from where he was and as I said no such post exists). There was no light stand facing him because one-way Figueroa St. only has light stands facing those who are traveling northbound...so he couldn't possibly have seen the light turn red.

So I feel that I am OK on the red-light charge. Now my question is this: can I request that the judge dismiss the driving with a suspended license charge following the presumptive dismissal of the original charge for which I was pulled over? I ask this because my car was only pulled over in the first place because of the officer's claim that I ran a red light. If I prove that the officer did not see me violate the red light, can I not suggest that the driving with a suspended license charge be dismissed on the grounds that my car was not legally pulled over in the first place for a legitimate reason, thus disqualifiyng the entire process that led to the driving with a suspended license charge? This train of thought makes sense to me but I only have a rudimentary understanding of the law. Does my reasoning here hold up enough for the driving with a suspended license charge to be dismissed, and if so, can I request that the state reimburse me for the price I paid to get my car out of the towing facility in which it was held for 30 days?

However, if I cannot use this line of reasoning, is there another argument anyone can think of with which I can address the disposition of the driving with a suspended license charge? Any help is appreciated!

[justalayman]

So I feel that I am OK on the red-light charge

. best of luck to you on that one. I suggest he has a reasonable explanation that will allow the courts to believe the officers claims but, best of luck, maybe he won't.

Now my question is this: can I request that the judge dismiss the driving with a suspended license charge following the presumptive dismissal of the original charge for which I was pulled over?

No. If the officer reasonably believed his justification for pulling you over, the rest is history. There is no salvation after that point.

[LSCAP]

I hate to get into this one,

The OP is saying that the officer was on the North side of the intersection on a one way street, and the traffic light did not show the color of the lights when you passed the intersection.
And it isn’t likely that he could see the Green light of the other (east or west) roadway as they shade the light to try to make it difficult to Jump the Green.

As for dismissal, the fourth amendment in traffic court is toast. And has been for a few years.
The original exceptions were if something -like a body- was found in your trunk, they ignored the minor offense. Now they make believe it doesn’t exist in traffic court.
I know of a kid cited for 63 in a 65 as retarding traffic at 3Am. It was dismissed, but the three bags (Nickel dime I know little about MJ) of marijuana were tried.

So he will most likely be found guilty on the second charge.

[CdwJava]

Have you since cleared up your license? Do you now have a vlaid license?

You are dealing with a couple of separate issues here. Presumably, if the court finds there to be reasonable doubt that the officer could ascertain you entered the intersection in violation CVC 21453(a), then even the 14601 charge should be dismissed. However, the impound is an issue the judge will not address as that is a separate matter.

To seek reimbursement for the impound you would have to first put in a claim to the city and you could probably use your "victory" in court as grounds for that claim for reimbursement. However, the city will almost certainly reject that claim and you will have to seek redress in Small Claims Court. I would strongly recommend you take the bus or have a friend with a valid license drive you to small claims court or you could find yourself getting stopped leaving or entering the parking lot at the court house. Whether a judge will see your side in the civil action is hard to say.

You will be sitting much prettier (and will avoid all of this heartache in the future) if you simply get a valid driver's license.

- Carl

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by LSCAP

And it isn’t likely that he could see the Green light of the other (east or west) roadway as they shade the light to try to make it difficult to Jump the Green.

That argument might work if the alleged violation occured during daylight hours. If it happened at night, then it maybe reasonable to assume that the officer possibly could have seen that the light changed to red through the reflection off of the OP's car...

asherzai21, what intersection did this happen at? Fig & what?

[asherzai21]

Wow, first of all thanks for the detailed responses. MUCH appreciated all!

I should have made a few things clear:

1) CDwJava: I have since set my date in court. Upon doing that I requested that the court send notice to the DMV that I was dealing with the charges...the suspension was lifted. I haven't tried to re-instate my California license however as I am now a resident of Arizona with an Arizona license. But I did need the CA suspension lifted to obtain an AZ license (our civil servants have gone national with a unified dmv/mva/mvd database which prevented me from being licensed in AZ until I addressed these CA charges). Since I don't live in CA anymore, I haven't needed to reinstate my California license. I should think all it would take to renew my CA license is a visit to a California DMV, but it's kind of a moot point - unless someone here tells me that it's an important requisite to demonstrate...something in court.

2) I_Got_Banned: All this occurred during the daytime (~5:00 PM in May) on a Friday, at the intersection of Figueroa Street and Olympic Boulevard. You can go to Google Maps and find the exact intersection in question. North of that intersection, on the eastern side of Figueroa facing northbound (between the first and second trees), was where the patrolcar was parked.

3) And just for general reference: My car was impounded for 30 days despite my sincerest efforts (visited the CPD in Downtown and the courthouse to preempt the full impoundment). But my car is safe and sound now, and I have been driving legally with an Arizona license for months now.

[CdwJava]

I assume that you are legally driving in Arizona with that Arizona license, correct? Because, if you live or work here, you need a California license and not an Arizona one.

In any event, you are correct that you should not need to get a valid license you should only need to get the suspension lifted. But none of it is going to be worth a whit if a court upholds the stop for the red light violation.

And, sincere efforts or not, driving on a suspended license is going to result in a 30 day impound unless you get a really sympathetic hearing officer ... and most of us just are not that sympathetic.

- Carl