(supposedly) improper turn

[asforoneday]

My state is Michigan.

http://i33.tinypic.com/14smvfa.png

This is basically what happened. I'm the car on the right. I could not see the motorcycle (who was in the wrong lane) and the motorcycle could not see me. Apparently he turned from behind the gray van and the gray van was headed towards the town on the right. What exactly happened was, I slowed down and turned on my turn signal. The gray van went to the right into Coloma (the town on the right). I checked to my right to make sure there was no traffic and turned into the other lane to get to the other side. Then, at the last second, I look over and a motorcycle hits me. Apparently the witness in the gray van (who unfairly talked to the guy on the motorcycle and not me) saw me "turn from the middle of the lane". They say it's an "improper turn" because they're trying to say that I was doing this:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2nm3frn.png

There's no proof that I was doing that because that wasn't what I was doing. The cop had to pin it on someone and probably pinned it on me because I'm a teenager and I was freaking out when it happened. :/ I do indeed have a witness who was in the passenger side with me who saw it all happen who I will have in court with me. Anyway, I'm fighting it in court, actually in an informal hearing because I didn't want to bother with lawyers and pre-trial. As you know, as a teenager my insurance price is already high, and with an accident it will skyrocket. Do I actually have a chance with the magistrate or do you think she or he will automatically go with what the cop said? My dad (who's coming into court with me) says that he doesn't trust the system and that he thinks the magistrate will automatically side with the cop.

Also, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I might not have made myself clear... that happens sometimes heh.

Edit: The picture is a little wrong, we were actually up to where there was no middle line, so obviously I could not have made an improper turn from something that didn't have a middle line?

[asforoneday]

bump, can no one help me?

[I_Got_Banned]

Its difficult to say what will happen. In as much as I would like to think that you can win in court, I think that in this case, hiring an attorney could have been a cost effective way to handle it. Especially considering the fact that you say your insurance rates are already too high; an "at fault" accident might cause them to go even higher. Some carriers may opt to drop a newly insured teenager after an "at fault" accident.

With that being said, let me comment on a couple of your statements.

Originally Posted by asforoneday

Apparently the witness in the gray van (who unfairly talked to the guy on the motorcycle and not me) saw me "turn from the middle of the lane".

Had the witness in the gray van talked to you/sided with you, would ity have been "unfair" to the guy on the motorcycle?
Who knows! My guess is that he talked to the guy on the motorcycle only due to the fact that he was at a greater risk of being injured and might have needed urgent medical services whereas you were more protected by the shell of your car.

Originally Posted by asforoneday

The cop had to pin it on someone and probably pinned it on me because I'm a teenager and I was freaking out when it happened.

The cop DIDN'T have to in it on nobody and certainly did not PIN it on you because you are a teenager. The cop will have to somehow justify his conclusion in court which would give you a chance to rebut hus statements. Cops are supposed to take witness statements, as well as statements of both drivers and then conme to a conclusion as to how it happened. Regardless of how honest and forward each driver is, typically each side is still partial to yourself and so is your statement.
Also, the cop gets no bonus from his department nor reward from the court, nor does he receive a tip from the driver deemed not at fault. The typical cop does his job the way he knows best, and goes home at the end of the day.

Originally Posted by asforoneday

I do indeed have a witness who was in the passenger side with me who saw it all happen who I will have in court with me.

Yes, your witness will help but to say that the court should believe your witness and throw out the officer's testimony/report does not make sense. I highly doubt that you were reciting every move (like you did here) to your witness as you drove also, you witness, just like any typical passenger is usually looking forward and while they might glance to the side at times they are not watching traffic as a co poilot would nor do the have the benefit of rear view mirrors to see wht's behind.

Originally Posted by asforoneday

Anyway, I'm fighting it in court, actually in an informal hearing because I didn't want to bother with lawyers and pre-trial.

I still think that's a bad move but that's me. (BTW, I am not an attorney & I am not in law enforcement either)!

Originally Posted by asforoneday

My dad (who's coming into court with me) says that he doesn't trust the system

What do you think? Do you believe in the system? Or is it what Dad says goes?
If so, why bother fight it then? Why not plead guilty, ay the fine and be done with it?

Lastly, I assume you reported this to your insurance, right? What are they saying? I don't think they have to necessarily side with the police report.

[LSCAP]

Unless the officer saw the accident, his testimony is usually useless, and in some states unwelcome. His report is all second hand information based on opinions of the subjects.
Both the OP and the other driver would be expected to give his/her version of what happened. And as someone here, pointed out, the passenger is usually of no help.
Take pictures and drawings with you.

I would definitely get an attorney. And no. I am not an attorney.
And I don’t trust the system either.

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by LSCAP

Unless the officer saw the accident, his testimony is usually useless, and in some states unwelcome. His report is all second hand information based on opinions of the subjects.

So when an insurance company insists that they must have a police report... They're just giving their insured a hard time and trying to complicate matters!

Also, the officer doesn't testify to what happened. He couldn't.. There is no court in the land that wil accept his testimony... Everybody knows he wasn't there. However, there are certain facts in his report, that might give some indications as to who's at fault and who's not. So he testifies based on his experience and he testifies about findings that came to light as he investigated! I wouldnt't really call that "useless" per se!

[asforoneday]

"The cop DIDN'T have to in it on nobody and certainly did not PIN it on you because you are a teenager. The cop will have to somehow justify his conclusion in court which would give you a chance to rebut hus statements. Cops are supposed to take witness statements, as well as statements of both drivers and then conme to a conclusion as to how it happened. Regardless of how honest and forward each driver is, typically each side is still partial to yourself and so is your statement.
Also, the cop gets no bonus from his department nor reward from the court, nor does he receive a tip from the driver deemed not at fault. The typical cop does his job the way he knows best, and goes home at the end of the day."

I know someone has to be at fault but it's extremely unlikely that I was at fault in this accident imo. Considering the motorcycle was on the wrong side of the road, I don't see how anyone can see it any other way. The only reason I could think was because it seemed like it was easy to pin it on me because I was flustered and admitted guilt right away (I learned a lesson at least, don't talk until I've calmed down when it comes to accidents). Also, when I talked to the cop, he had this sort of "tough luck" attitude when he told me, like he knew it was the other guy's fault and found that it would be easy to blame me.

"Yes, your witness will help but to say that the court should believe your witness and throw out the officer's testimony/report does not make sense. I highly doubt that you were reciting every move (like you did here) to your witness as you drove also, you witness, just like any typical passenger is usually looking forward and while they might glance to the side at times they are not watching traffic as a co poilot would nor do the have the benefit of rear view mirrors to see wht's behind."

The officer wasn't there, my witness was. How would that not make sense? She was turned towards me talking to me when it happened. She's the type that turns towards people and makes exaggerated movements even though I can't see what she's doing, so she was the first one who saw what happened. But I guess the most she can attest is I was doing what I was supposed to be doing.

"I still think that's a bad move but that's me. (BTW, I am not an attorney & I am not in law enforcement either)!"

I just want this to be over as soon as possible; the only reason I'm really even fighting it is because my Dad says it's unjust. I think it's unjust too, but I have a terrible social phobia and court phobia as well, and I like everything to just be over as quickly and easy as possible (path of least resistance thinking I guess).

"What do you think? Do you believe in the system? Or is it what Dad says goes?
If so, why bother fight it then? Why not plead guilty, ay the fine and be done with it?

Lastly, I assume you reported this to your insurance, right? What are they saying? I don't think they have to necessarily side with the police report."

Yes, I believe in the system. The reason I'm fighting it is above... The main reason is that my insurance premiums will skyrocket, and seeing as I'm not the ones paying them at the moment because I don't have a job, I would feel REALLY bad making my Dad pay higher premiums for an accident that wasn't even my fault.

Yes, I reported it to my insurance but they didn't seem to really say anything? They sent me something in the mail about if I was hurt or something... :/

[I_Got_Banned]

[quote=asforoneday;2066751The only reason I could think was because it seemed like it was easy to pin it on me because I was flustered and admitted guilt right away (I learned a lesson at least, don't talk until I've calmed down when it comes to accidents). [/QUOTE]
There’s always a price to pay for the lessons that we learn… Sometimes we have it easy, other times we get screwed! Welcome to the real world… That by no means should even suggest that you should accept guilt if you feel you were not at fault.

Originally Posted by asforoneday

Also, when I talked to the cop, he had this sort of "tough luck" attitude when he told me, like he knew it was the other guy's fault and found that it would be easy to blame me.

Yeah, well he probably sees that sort of thing all day long… And just like you denied guilt and blamed the other guy, so does everybody else he talks to… That can get sort of frustrating I guess… Don’t take it personally though… I assure you he had no personal vendetta against you

Originally Posted by asforoneday

The officer wasn't there, my witness was.

Once again, the officer is experienced to investigate, listen, make notations and then write a report. Law enforcement agencies have accident investigation manuals… They look for specific things from witness statements, from drivers statements, from evidence found at the scene, from the direction of travel each vehicle was (allegedly) headed and where each vehicle ended up immediately after the collision. Things that you and I would never deem as important might be a big clue as to what’s transpired. So yes, the officer wasn’t there…

Also, the report will have facts and maybe a few opinions or conclusions. If you challenge those “facts” and prove that they were untrue did not exist or never happened then it might be very easy for you to question/second guess the conclusions… the main one being your being at fault…

You need to do some reading, some research… but to walk into court on a prayer and hoping for a miracle, you will walk out as guilty as when you walked in. The alternative is for you to hire an attorney but may not suit your situation financially… I don’t know!

Originally Posted by asforoneday

The officer wasn't there, my witness was. How would that not make sense?

This is how…

Originally Posted by asforoneday

She was turned towards me talking to me when it happened. She's the type that turns towards people and makes exaggerated movements even though I can't see what she's doing, so she was the first one who saw what happened. But I guess the most she can attest is I was doing what I was supposed to be doing.

If she was turned towards you, then she wasn’t even looking ahead… in other words, she was focused on you and on the conversation… meaning she was oblivious to the world that existed outside of the shell of that vehicle you both were in. If you still think she can provide testimony that would benefit you in your defense, then so be it.
A pretty good test to see how valuable of a witness she will in fact be is this. Ask her one simple short and pointed question… “What happened?” and see what she says…? Chances are she will repeat the story as you had repeated it to her so many times… Does that really add anything to your story?

By the way, if she was that into the conversation… facing you, as you described... -->

Originally Posted by asforoneday

She's the type that turns towards people and makes exaggerated movements

BUT you were driving, eyes on the road, full attention as to your surroundings… You were ignoring your talkative passenger who typically will (I imagine sit forward in the passenger seat), make exaggerated movements… yet you again …

Originally Posted by asforoneday

I can't see what she's doing

Also… as I said, you were driving, eyes on the road, full attention as to your surroundings… BUT,

Originally Posted by asforoneday

she was the first one who saw what happened.

and you didn’t???????

Lastly…

Originally Posted by asforoneday

I guess the most she can attest is I was doing what I was supposed to be doing.

May I suggest that the most that she can attest to is: you were “DRIVING”. Period…
If you’re suggesting that she can attest to AS IN truthfully testify that she saw you glance up at your rear view mirror, signaled, slowed down or sped up or did what ever it was that you did just prior to the collision, and in whatever order it actually occurred, then I would disagree… Even if you can show that she was in fact able to recall your moves and actions, you might have a difficult time proving that she was ALSO able to see what happened outside of the vehicle AND THAT SHE WAS ALSO being talkative and making exaggerated movements… Then I would venture to guess that she is making some of it up or has been told what to say… Please don’t take any of this personally. I may be wrong about all of it. I am just suggesting that a lot of times, you can say something that you might think is meaningless, yet I can turn it around and make a huge deal out of it… be careful what you say in court, what and how you testify and what you offer as evidence in your favor.

Originally Posted by asforoneday

I just want this to be over as soon as possible; the only reason I'm really even fighting it is because my Dad says it's unjust. I think it's unjust too, but I have a terrible social phobia and court phobia as well, and I like everything to just be over as quickly and easy as possible (path of least resistance thinking I guess).

Well, so your Dad does not believe the system is neither just nor fair and yet he wants you to fight it because if you don’t then it is unfair… As for your social phobia… Might be a good time to face your fears and put that “phobia” behind you… And you’re not alone on the “court phobia”…

Originally Posted by asforoneday

Yes, I believe in the system. The reason I'm fighting it is above... The main reason is that my insurance premiums will skyrocket, and seeing as I'm not the ones paying them at the moment because I don't have a job, I would feel REALLY bad making my Dad pay higher premiums for an accident that wasn't even my fault.

Yes, I reported it to my insurance but they didn't seem to really say anything? They sent me something in the mail about if I was hurt or something...

Well, do the best that you can to fight it and if you lose, may I suggest that you explain to your Dad that he should consider any increase in premium as a loan that you will repay him once you get a job and are able to pay him back. That’s what I would do…

Again, please don’t think I’m picking on you or trying to give you a hard time “just because”… I think you are totally stressed out because of what’s happened… Now, although I am not suggesting that everything I said is 100% correct, just consider it as a second opinion…

Good luck…

EDIT: When are you due in court next?