Was there Probable Cause?

[prbbleloophole]

What is the name of your state? California (involves Pennsylvania too)

I was recently pulled over in San Francisco. After it was said and done my car was impounded. The reasons were 12500(a), 6700(a), and 4152.5 which are No Cali License, (can't read this one), and Exp Out of State Registration, respectively.

I'm a student in Cali, who works, and claims Cali residency for college. My parents own the vehicle I drive; they live in Southeast Pennsylvania. The only proof that my car was in Cali was a parking ticket (paid it) issued on 9-7-02. I have worked in Cali without a car between 6-4-01 to 1-11-02 and 7-1-02 to 9-7-02. Also, I have never paid rent in Cali, or voted. Well I've read the law and it seems like some of the violations will stick, but there is a catch. Oh, I should mention that my Pennsylvania license is/was valid until 2-28-03, the car's registration is/was valid through the end of September (and renewed Friday in PA for yet another year), the insurance is/was valid through 7-15-03.

So the catch... The Officer stated that the reason he pulled me over was the expired Inspection and Emission stickers on my windshield. That is what he stated to be his probable cause verbally to me, and it was also noted in the "Evidence" portion of the citation.

I did some research into PA law regarding expired Inspection/ Emissions stickers. I found that if the vehicle is out of the state for more than 30 consecutive days and during that time the stickers become expired you then have until you get back plus 10 days to be issued current stickers. Since that is true in my case then the stickers did not constitute a violation or a probable cause to then pull me over??? Can a Police Officer pull you over in California without probable cause? If they can’t... does this mean everything that was investigated and cited as a violation resulting from the non-existent probable cause becomes evidence taken illegally?

Also, this was really lame, I surrendered the key and alarm remote to the Officer... he noted that on the Inventory. When I went to pickup the car, the only key and remote I had to the car in a 390 mile radius was missing from the car. The tow company said their records stated no key was in the vehicle or given to the tow truck driver. I know the Officer did not give the tow truck driver the key, he had it when the tow truck driver left with my car. When I called the police station a dispatcher said he talked to the officer and the officer said I could pick the key up at the police station. When I got back to the station the officer said he never talked to anyone about my key and he did not have it. The tow company (in order to get my car off the lot before they closed) hired a hack to make me a new key that does not work and actually broke the lock on the driver door. I got a FedEx’d key and remote from my brother today, and the key does not turn the driver’s side door lock that the hack‘s key broke (luckily I can use the alarm remote).

So.... Did the officer have a right to pull me over and what does it mean for a possible court case? With the key/remote who’s responsible for that?

Any info will greatly be appreciated, thanks in advance....

 

[Bravo8]

You need to look into California law. Pennsylvania's inspection law has nothing to do with the stop.

You are correct in stating that Pa laws provides for a "grace period" of sorts upon returning to the Commonwealth. Your vehicle was out of state for more than 30 days, and would have been given 10 days to have it inspected.

Unfortunately you were not in Pa, but Ca. An officer from Kommiefornia isn't going to enforce Pa law. If he cited you, it had to be under Kali law.

But the issue is PC, isn't it? Well, is it possible that Kali allows an "out-of-state" violation to constitute PC?

Many states have laws stating a vehicle registered in another state does not have to be registered in that state to be operated. If your vehicle is not properly registered, it is considered to be unregistered. Is it possible that Kalifornia has a similar law regarding inspections?

The above is all speculation. I couldn't find Kalifornia law online, and it's late and I am tired.

Yet, I don't feel the PC is really an issue. In order for a lack of PC to become an issue on a traffic stop, there has to have been a search. Ascertaining the status of your license and registration are not searches, and therefore would not be suppressed under the "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine.

Had a search commenced, I would say you have a valid defense and argument for suppresion. But, once again, both those issues are not searches.

 

[TYRIS]

What is the name of your state? California (involves Pennsylvania too)

I was recently pulled over in San Francisco. After it was said and done my car was impounded. The reasons were 12500(a), 6700(a), and 4152.5 which are No Cali License, (can't read this one), and Exp Out of State Registration, respectively.

I'm a student in Cali, who works, and claims Cali residency for college. My parents own the vehicle I drive; they live in Southeast Pennsylvania. The only proof that my car was in Cali was a parking ticket (paid it) issued on 9-7-02. I have worked in Cali without a car between 6-4-01 to 1-11-02 and 7-1-02 to 9-7-02. Also, I have never paid rent in Cali, or voted. Well I've read the law and it seems like some of the violations will stick, but there is a catch. Oh, I should mention that my Pennsylvania license is/was valid until 2-28-03, the car's registration is/was valid through the end of September (and renewed Friday in PA for yet another year), the insurance is/was valid through 7-15-03.

So the catch... The Officer stated that the reason he pulled me over was the expired Inspection and Emission stickers on my windshield. That is what he stated to be his probable cause verbally to me, and it was also noted in the "Evidence" portion of the citation.

I did some research into PA law regarding expired Inspection/ Emissions stickers. I found that if the vehicle is out of the state for more than 30 consecutive days and during that time the stickers become expired you then have until you get back plus 10 days to be issued current stickers. Since that is true in my case then the stickers did not constitute a violation or a probable cause to then pull me over??? Can a Police Officer pull you over in California without probable cause? If they can’t... does this mean everything that was investigated and cited as a violation resulting from the non-existent probable cause becomes evidence taken illegally?

Also, this was really lame, I surrendered the key and alarm remote to the Officer... he noted that on the Inventory. When I went to pickup the car, the only key and remote I had to the car in a 390 mile radius was missing from the car. The tow company said their records stated no key was in the vehicle or given to the tow truck driver. I know the Officer did not give the tow truck driver the key, he had it when the tow truck driver left with my car. When I called the police station a dispatcher said he talked to the officer and the officer said I could pick the key up at the police station. When I got back to the station the officer said he never talked to anyone about my key and he did not have it. The tow company (in order to get my car off the lot before they closed) hired a hack to make me a new key that does not work and actually broke the lock on the driver door. I got a FedEx’d key and remote from my brother today, and the key does not turn the driver’s side door lock that the hack‘s key broke (luckily I can use the alarm remote).

So.... Did the officer have a right to pull me over and what does it mean for a possible court case? With the key/remote who’s responsible for that?

Any info will greatly be appreciated, thanks in advance....

- these were the sections you were cited for:

VC§ 12500. Unlawful to Drive Unless Licensed
(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle upon a highway, unless the person then holds a valid driver's license issued under this code, except those persons who are expressly exempted under this code.

VC§ 6700. Use of Foreign License Plates: Limitation
(a) Except as provided in Section 6700.2, the owner of any vehicle of a type otherwise subject to registration under this code, other than a commercial vehicle registered in a foreign jurisdiction, may operate the vehicle in this state until gainful employment is accepted in this state or until residency is established in this state, whichever occurs first, if the vehicle displays valid license plates and has a valid registration issued to the owner, and the owner was a resident of that state at the time of issuance. Application to register the vehicle shall be made within 20 days after gainful employment is accepted in this state or residency is established in this state.

VC§ 4152.5. Foreign Vehicle Registration
Except as provided for in subdivision (c) of Section 9553, when California registration is required of a vehicle last registered in a foreign jurisdiction, an application for registration shall be made to the department within 20 days following the date registration became due. The application shall be deemed an original application.


regardless of what you've read, pa law does not apply to california and does not release you from the officer's probable cause for the stop. your vehicle was expired per california law and that is all that matters.

you have already stated that you maintain a residency in ca. by that statement you had twenty days to change your driver's license and vehicle registration over to california. in not doing so, you are driving without a ca license, regardless of whether or not your pa license is valid.

sorry, but the officer's probable cause was legal.

Tyris

 

[prbbleloophole]

Hold on just one minute....

The probable cause was expired Insp/Emi stickers -that and only that. However, if the car is not in PA at the time of the Insp/Emi due date it is still valid until you return to PA. Since it is validly registered in PA then the car is validly registered in CA, that's CA LAW -you wrote it read it again to yourself!

THE QUESTION:
So does a CA traffic cop need a probable cause to pull anyone over? Can they just pick at random and investigate the driver?

-Thanks

 

[stephenk]

you are still missing the point.

California police see you driving a car with expired tags on a Pennsylvania license plate. The fact that Pennsylvania gives you some extension of time to renew when you return to that state does not prevent a California officer from stopping you for driving a car with expired tags. The expired tags are the probable cause!

Did the officer ask you where you were currently residing and did you tell him you were a student in California? Now he has you for failing to renew your car plates and driver's license to California plates and license.

The tow yard is resonsible for breaking off the key in the door lock. You can sue them in small claims court for the cost of the repair to the lock. You can also file a claim with the police agency that stopped you (city police, sheriff or highway patrol?) for the cost of the lost remote and for having to pay to get another one.

 

[Bravo8]

I'm confused.

You were cited for having an expired registration.......was it expired or not? Or were you cited for being a Kali resident and not registering your vehicle in Kali?

Pa law does not stipulate that your inspection and emmision sticker are valid until 10 days after you return. You are granted a bar from prosecution for those 10 days in order to bring your vehicle back to a legal state. The difference is you are still in violation and the bad stickers do represent probable cause.

The issue here is whether the expired inspection constitutes probable cause in Kalifornia. I don't know the answer to that.

In response to your question, technically an officer can stop a vehicle without probable cause. A traffic stop is considered an investigative detention, and not an arrest. Therefore, a traffic stop need only be supported by reasonable suspicion.

Would a reasonable police officer have a reasonable belief that a vehicle displaying an expired inspection sticker is in violation of the law? Yes, he / she would.