Ticket as driver for no seat belt back seat passanger

[edina88]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I visited California and the police seemed just to wait for visitors like me to give tickets. He did not mind the small baby in the rental car, he gave a ticket to both my husband and me, to my husband for not wearing a seatbelt as a passenger in the back seat. And for me to drive like that.

I want to fight my ticket and claim not guilty. Does anybody know any similar cases? I base my case on the fact that I cannot see the backseat passenger in the mirror, so I cannot know if he is wearing a seatbelt or not, unless I turn around, which is extremely unsafe and impossible to do during driving.

Could you please advise me how to write this?

Anybody any similar tickets?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[justalayman]

I have to presume the ticket is based on a valid law so rather than confirm that, I'll just address your argument.

it doesn't matter.

Just as if you had a child in the back seat not properly secured, you would be held liable for that. What would be the difference with a passenger? As the driver of a vehicle, you are considered to be in control of all actions that take place in the vehicle. Unless you want to try to argue you told your husband to buckle and he did but he unbuckled without you realizing it, I don't see any argument at all.

 

[CdwJava]

I visited California and the police seemed just to wait for visitors like me to give tickets.

Only if they violate provisions of the Vehicle Code.

He did not mind the small baby in the rental car, he gave a ticket to both my husband and me, to my husband for not wearing a seatbelt as a passenger in the back seat. And for me to drive like that.

There is no prohibition to driving with small children in a car, but there is one against being improperly restrained. If your child was not properly restrained, shame on you. If the baby was not restrained and you did not get a cite, the officer did you a huge favor as that can be a pricey violation.

I want to fight my ticket and claim not guilty. Does anybody know any similar cases? I base my case on the fact that I cannot see the backseat passenger in the mirror, so I cannot know if he is wearing a seatbelt or not, unless I turn around, which is extremely unsafe and impossible to do during driving.

You can certainly try to use that as an argument, but you will likely have to argue what reasonable steps you took to ascertain that the passenger was properly restrained. Did you call back to them and they said they were restrained properly? Did you look back before you proceeded to move the car from park?

Ultimately the driver is responsible. It will be your burden to show why you were not. Now, if the passenger testifies that they secretly removed the belt while you were in motion, you might stand a chance.

You can do the first trial as a trial by written declaration if you file soon enough. You can then proceed to a court trial if you do not like the decision in the TBWD.

 

[edina88]

Only if they violate provisions of the Vehicle Code.

There is no prohibition to driving with small children in a car, but there is one against being improperly restrained. If your child was not properly restrained, shame on you. If the baby was not restrained and you did not get a cite, the officer did you a huge favor as that can be a pricey violation.

I only violated a single one, which does not even exist in many countries and states, such as mine. For any practical and human reasoning, this ticket should not have been issued. By law, it was of course a valid choice of the policeman.

The baby was of course properly restrained. Only my husband was not, in the back seat, attending the baby.

You can do the first trial as a trial by written declaration if you file soon enough. You can then proceed to a court trial if you do not like the decision in the TBWD.

I did not even realize that I would also get a ticket, because the policeman did not tell me anything, just half a sentence about asking my papers just for the reference. I am not even sure if this is legal, not to tell me that he is issuing a ticket.

My husband of course must have unbuckled him right after we left, and he did not let me know. Should I include his statement in the trial by declaration letter?

What is really upsetting that we end up paying more than 300$ as a family, just for a passenger seat belt.. And we don't live in CA to go to court.
I understand LA needs money, but this is outrageous to my opinion.

 

[Antigone*]

I only violated a single one, which does not even exist in many countries and states, such as mine. For any practical and human reasoning, this ticket should not have been issued. By law, it was of course a valid choice of the policeman.

The baby was of course properly restrained. Only my husband was not, in the back seat, attending the baby.



I did not even realize that I would also get a ticket, because the policeman did not tell me anything, just half a sentence about asking my papers just for the reference. I am not even sure if this is legal, not to tell me that he is issuing a ticket.

My husband of course must have unbuckled him right after we left, and he did not let me know. Should I include his statement in the trial by declaration letter?

What is really upsetting that we end up paying more than 300$ as a family, just for a passenger seat belt.. And we don't live in CA to go to court.
I understand LA needs money, but this is outrageous to my opinion.

Outrageous is what happens to people when not properly restrained in a vehicle. And that my friend is not an opinion ~ it is a fact.

 

[Zigner]

I only violated a single one, which does not even exist in many countries and states...

Funny thing about that is that *you* were only cited for one violation that DOES exist where you were cited.

You CAN'T be this dense about things...

 

[The Occultist]

I did not even realize that I would also get a ticket, because the policeman did not tell me anything, just half a sentence about asking my papers just for the reference. I am not even sure if this is legal, not to tell me that he is issuing a ticket.

I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here: you should not be allowed to be issued a ticket unless the issuing officer informed you that he'd be writing you a ticket?

 

[CdwJava]

I only violated a single one, which does not even exist in many countries and states, such as mine.

Unfortunately for you, our state Vehicle Code does not exempt people from other states. You are responsible to follow the rules of the road when you drive here.

For any practical and human reasoning, this ticket should not have been issued. By law, it was of course a valid choice of the policeman.

There are practical and valid reasons to have a driver responsible for their passengers.

The baby was of course properly restrained. Only my husband was not, in the back seat, attending the baby.

Hopefully next time he will wear his seatbelt. Even if he does not have to in your state, he should.

I did not even realize that I would also get a ticket, because the policeman did not tell me anything, just half a sentence about asking my papers just for the reference. I am not even sure if this is legal, not to tell me that he is issuing a ticket.

You were notified of the citation when he handed it to you. No law requires the police to announce that they are issuing a citation before they issue it and no agency has such a policy or practice that I am aware of.

My husband of course must have unbuckled him right after we left, and he did not let me know. Should I include his statement in the trial by declaration letter?

Absolutely.

What is really upsetting that we end up paying more than 300$ as a family, just for a passenger seat belt.. And we don't live in CA to go to court.
I understand LA needs money, but this is outrageous to my opinion.

L.A. won't get the money. Los Angeles will probably profit by less than $5 per citation - if that. So, if you want to complain, contact the state legislature as they set the fines and allow for fees and assessments that are tacked on.

 

[George1776]

Seatbelts for adults is an individual choice, like motorcycle helmets. Many states have said this in regards to helmet laws & I agree. The gov't is not your mommy ... When a cop is going to cite me for not wearing a seatbelt, I tell them its not a constitutional law & that the cop is not my mommy. They let me go every time.

 

[justalayman]

Seatbelts for adults is an individual choice, like motorcycle helmets. Many states have said this in regards to helmet laws & I agree. The gov't is not your mommy ... When a cop is going to cite me for not wearing a seatbelt, I tell them its not a constitutional law & that the cop is not my mommy. They let me go every time.

come on over to Michigan and tell the cops it's your choice to wear a helmet or not. I am sure they will be more than glad to give you an invitation to the judges court so you can explain it to him as well.

and no, it is not unconstitutional to require you to wear your seatbelt. What is wrong is when I have to pay for your stay at a hospital while you veg the rest of your life away drooling all over yourself and not able to pay for it.

 

[George1776]

come on over to Michigan and tell the cops it's your choice to wear a helmet or not. I am sure they will be more than glad to give you an invitation to the judges court so you can explain it to him as well.

and no, it is not unconstitutional to require you to wear your seatbelt. What is wrong is when I have to pay for your stay at a hospital while you veg the rest of your life away drooling all over yourself and not able to pay for it.

Some states have ruled otherwise ... nanny state reasons.... What about people who get injured in water crashes who cannot get out due to their seatbelt ? Seems like its a personal decision...

 

[justalayman]

What about people who get injured in water crashes who cannot get out due to their seatbelt ? ...

ya, why don't you hunt up the statistics of how many times a year that happens in the US. I'm betting the numbers are really low. I suspect the deaths of people in cars without seatbelts on is considerably higher.

 

[CdwJava]

Seatbelts for adults is an individual choice, like motorcycle helmets. Many states have said this in regards to helmet laws & I agree. The gov't is not your mommy ... When a cop is going to cite me for not wearing a seatbelt, I tell them its not a constitutional law & that the cop is not my mommy. They let me go every time.

Wow, are YOU lucky. Most officers I know would probably write the citation for the attitude.

If you come to my state, wear your seatbelt or risk citation. Don't like the law, don't drive here.

 

[CdwJava]

Some states have ruled otherwise ... nanny state reasons.... What about people who get injured in water crashes who cannot get out due to their seatbelt ? Seems like its a personal decision...

I am pleased as punch that "some states" have decided otherwise. Good for them. In most states it is the law. If you do not like seatbelt laws or helmet laws, drive only in states where your personal choices are respected. You do have that choice.

And for every odd trapped-in-a-seatbelt-scenario there are many dozens of cases where people died because they did not use a seatbelt. I saw the result of that on December 22nd up close and personal ... young girl ... dead ... not properly wearing her seatbelt.

 

[marshalAK]

Seatbelts for adults is an individual choice, like motorcycle helmets. Many states have said this in regards to helmet laws & I agree. The gov't is not your mommy ... When a cop is going to cite me for not wearing a seatbelt, I tell them its not a constitutional law & that the cop is not my mommy. They let me go every time.

You sound a lot like my childhood friend Mike, who was a brilliant scholar, a dear friend, and sometimes a flaming idiot. He held this exact attitude towards seatbelt laws. "The government won't tell me what to do!".

He died 3 years ago this March as a result of what should have been a minor car accident. Instead, he hit his head on the windshield, spent a month in a coma, and then was taken off life support by his heartbroken parents.

He was 25.

Wear your seatbelt. The hell with the government telling you what to do, your own sense of self-preservation ought to cover that.