Ticket in Indiana - no posted speed limit coming off interstate, known speed trap

[aie]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana (Marion County)

Thank you all in advance for any advice you provide.

I am posting in regards to a ticket I received last month. The officer is a known 'motorcycle cop' (although in a car that day) who's daily routine is primarily pulling people over for speeding.

I was exiting the 465 ramp, pulling onto US31, when I spotted an officer who had someone pulled over. As I passed by the officer, I saw him turn his light on and proceed to pull me over. Coming right off of the ramp, there were no signs yet indicating the speed limit, and I knew I was doing around 45. I could see a sign further down the road once he pulled me over but when he had clocked me the sign was not yet visible since I had just exited the ramp and there was no posted sign under further down the road. I am never someone who speeds because I am very paranoid about ever getting a traffic ticket due to financial constraints, but knew I was going about 6mph over that morning since I was running behind. I admitted to the officer that I realize I was going over the limit but was in a hurry ( I know now this is a horrible idea). However I believe I was going at a speed that was still safe for individuals and other drivers (6mph over).

He issues a ticket for going 56 in a 40, I (stupidly, I know) tell the officer that there was no way I was going 56, and he asserts that I was and that I 'could've killed someone'. He then walks off without a word on what to do with the ticket (I have no previous tickets).

I know that I was speeding, and it's possibly he clocked me at 50 if I somehow read my speedometer wrong, but it is very unlikely. I typically am the one everyone passes because, like I said, I don't have the financial means to pay for a ticket.

I am hoping to take the ticket to court and if the officer shows, I am debating on fighting the ticket or doing a deferral at that time (cost $250, but not sure if I would incur court fees). Since he is a traffic cop, I am worried that he very educated in making sure calibrations, etc are up to date.

I wanted to get all of your honest opinions on this and any recommendations you have. I am 100% certain I was not going 56 but know I was going somewhat over because I just came off the highway and couldn't see the posted speed limit until further down the road. I am told by others who live in the area that officers sit here all the time to catch people speeding.

I have a draft of the letter I planned on submitting for discovery, and would appreciate any feedback on that as well. It has been about 30 days since the ticket was issued.


"Dear Sir or Madam,


I would like to request the following:
1) All notes, records, and log files made by Officer ---- as well as his copy of the ticket.
2) All maintenance and calibration records for any speed detection unit Office ---- used in regards to ticket # as well as records of any repairs to the unit.
3) A copy of department policy on calibrating speed detection unit used to issue ticket #
4) Operation Manuals for the speed detection unit including policy on how often it should be calibrated and receive maintenance.
5) All engineering reports and studies performed to ascertain the posted limit,
6) A list of all traffic tickets issued by Officer --- for -October 2013, and location of issue
7) A record of the speed reading for each ticket issued on - October 2013 by Officer ---
8) Officer --- training records and certifications.
Best Regards,"


Again, thank all of you so much for any help in advance.

 

[FlyingRon]

You're free to ask about all that stuff, but they only have to provide the stuff that they actually have. You're unlikely to get the operating manual nor the engineering survey.

You'll have to explain, other than intentionally trying to annoy people, what you intend to do with things like the other tickets issued, etc...
None of that appears to have any relevance to your case.

Your "belief" will not refute the officer's testimony.

 

[aie]

You're free to ask about all that stuff, but they only have to provide the stuff that they actually have. You're unlikely to get the operating manual nor the engineering survey.

You'll have to explain, other than intentionally trying to annoy people, what you intend to do with things like the other tickets issued, etc...
None of that appears to have any relevance to your case.

Your "belief" will not refute the officer's testimony.

I'm not sure how a calibration record of the speeding device used is not relevant to my case, nor the tickets written by the Officer that day (speed trap argument).

Also the fact that there was no sign posting the speed limit from the point in which I exited the interstate to where I was pulled over. Please clarify. Thank you.

 

[Ohiogal]

I'm not sure how a calibration record of the speeding device used is not relevant to my case, nor the tickets written by the Officer that day (speed trap argument).

Also the fact that there was no sign posting the speed limit from the point in which I exited the interstate to where I was pulled over. Please clarify. Thank you.

Speed trap argument? You were speeding. YOU admitted it. Tickets don't matter. It doesn't matter how people were caught speeding that day. Calibration could matter HOWEVER the operating manual and engineering survey matters not. YOu going to have an expert testifying?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana (Marion County)

Thank you all in advance for any advice you provide.

I am posting in regards to a ticket I received last month. The officer is a known 'motorcycle cop' (although in a car that day) who's daily routine is primarily pulling people over for speeding.

I was exiting the 465 ramp, pulling onto US31, when I spotted an officer who had someone pulled over. As I passed by the officer, I saw him turn his light on and proceed to pull me over. Coming right off of the ramp, there were no signs yet indicating the speed limit, and I knew I was doing around 45. I could see a sign further down the road once he pulled me over but when he had clocked me the sign was not yet visible since I had just exited the ramp and there was no posted sign under further down the road. I am never someone who speeds because I am very paranoid about ever getting a traffic ticket due to financial constraints, but knew I was going about 6mph over that morning since I was running behind. I admitted to the officer that I realize I was going over the limit but was in a hurry ( I know now this is a horrible idea). However I believe I was going at a speed that was still safe for individuals and other drivers (6mph over).

He issues a ticket for going 56 in a 40, I (stupidly, I know) tell the officer that there was no way I was going 56, and he asserts that I was and that I 'could've killed someone'. He then walks off without a word on what to do with the ticket (I have no previous tickets).

I know that I was speeding, and it's possibly he clocked me at 50 if I somehow read my speedometer wrong, but it is very unlikely. I typically am the one everyone passes because, like I said, I don't have the financial means to pay for a ticket.

I am hoping to take the ticket to court and if the officer shows, I am debating on fighting the ticket or doing a deferral at that time (cost $250, but not sure if I would incur court fees). Since he is a traffic cop, I am worried that he very educated in making sure calibrations, etc are up to date.

I wanted to get all of your honest opinions on this and any recommendations you have. I am 100% certain I was not going 56 but know I was going somewhat over because I just came off the highway and couldn't see the posted speed limit until further down the road. I am told by others who live in the area that officers sit here all the time to catch people speeding.

I have a draft of the letter I planned on submitting for discovery, and would appreciate any feedback on that as well. It has been about 30 days since the ticket was issued.


"Dear Sir or Madam,


I would like to request the following:
1) All notes, records, and log files made by Officer ---- as well as his copy of the ticket.
2) All maintenance and calibration records for any speed detection unit Office ---- used in regards to ticket # as well as records of any repairs to the unit.
3) A copy of department policy on calibrating speed detection unit used to issue ticket #
4) Operation Manuals for the speed detection unit including policy on how often it should be calibrated and receive maintenance.
5) All engineering reports and studies performed to ascertain the posted limit,
6) A list of all traffic tickets issued by Officer --- for -October 2013, and location of issue
7) A record of the speed reading for each ticket issued on - October 2013 by Officer ---
8) Officer --- training records and certifications.
Best Regards,"


Again, thank all of you so much for any help in advance.

I know exactly what cop you are referring to. He did the same thing to me. Gave me a ticket for going 10 miles faster than I was going. I decided to fight it. I showed up for court, he didn't and my ticket was dismissed. There is a danger however in doing that, because they changed the law a couple of years ago and if you fight it out in court and lose, there are additional fees.

Next time, don't admit that you were speeding or in a hurry.

 

[FlyingRon]

There's no "speed trap law" in Indiana. You need to stop reading books that offer advise that's dubious even for California where they apply, let alone working in other parts of the country. The state vests authority in the state and local authorities to enact the prima facie limits and doesn't constrain them to an engineering study.

 

[justalayman]

You need to stop reading books that offer advise that's dubious even for California where they apply, let alone working in other parts of the country.

Exactly my thoughts when reading this.



I haven't chased any defenses specific to Indiana but the maintenance of the SMD may allow a defense (although OP is going about it all wrong). The rest of the stuff is likely worthless.

The only other defense possible that I can think of would be the lack of a posted limit where OP entered US 31, if the posted limit is below the default limit for the roadway assigned per Indiana law.


aie:


were you on the north side heading north or south on US 31 or on the south side heading north or south on US 31?

 

[Salsawood]

Ticket Indiana

- You have a case. more on why later.

 

[Salsawood]

To "Ticket in Indiana-no posted speed limit

Short simple reply is this;
A motorist must be informed of the speed limits.
There is 1/10th mile from exit ramp to the 40 mph sign. the speed before that 40 mph sign is 45 mph.
This road is of a particular type designated by the state. It likely has a prima facie speed limit of 55 or 60 or 65.
The speed limit was changed to 45 mph after a traffic engineering survey was done.
It is reasonable for a motorist to drive the prima facie speed for that road until he is informed of a different speed.
Every state has regulatory / prima facie speed limits (a few do not) for either highways / freeways or residential/ business districts or both.
Driving the prima facie speed for that type of road is acceptable until some information tells you the speed is different.
This is a short 1/10th mile space between the exit ramp and the 40 mph sign where the cop decides to nab motorists.
If he clocked you after the 40 mph sign or states that he did, you are presented to the judge as driving 56 in a 40 mph zone.

I'll see if this shorter message goes through.

 

[quincy]

Short simple reply is this;
A motorist must be informed of the speed limits.
There is 1/10th mile from exit ramp to the 40 mph sign. the speed before that 40 mph sign is 45 mph.
This road is of a particular type designated by the state. It likely has a prima facie speed limit of 55 or 60 or 65.
The speed limit was changed to 45 mph after a traffic engineering survey was done.
It is reasonable for a motorist to drive the prima facie speed for that road until he is informed of a different speed.
Every state has regulatory / prima facie speed limits (a few do not) for either highways / freeways or residential/ business districts or both.
Driving the prima facie speed for that type of road is acceptable until some information tells you the speed is different.
This is a short 1/10th mile space between the exit ramp and the 40 mph sign where the cop decides to nab motorists.
If he clocked you after the 40 mph sign or states that he did, you are presented to the judge as driving 56 in a 40 mph zone.

I'll see if this shorter message goes through.

Salsawood, posts are generally flagged for review if there are commercial or advertising links or messages in them (and sometimes for other reasons).

You stated in your last post that aie has a case. Did your longer message explain exactly why you believe aie has a case? Do you reside in Indiana or are you familiar with US-31?

 

[justalayman]

IShort simple reply is this;
A motorist must be informed of the speed limits.
There is 1/10th mile from exit ramp to the 40 mph sign. the speed before that 40 mph sign is 45 mph.
This road is of a particular type designated by the state. It likely has a prima facie speed limit of 55 or 60 or 65.
The speed limit was changed to 45 mph after a traffic engineering survey was done.
It is reasonable for a motorist to drive the prima facie speed for that road until he is informed of a different speed.
Every state has regulatory / prima facie speed limits (a few do not) for either highways / freeways or residential/ business districts or both.
Driving the prima facie speed for that type of road is acceptable until some information tells you the speed is different.
This is a short 1/10th mile space between the exit ramp and the 40 mph sign where the cop decides to nab motorists.
If he clocked you after the 40 mph sign or states that he did, you are presented to the judge as driving 56 in a 40 mph zone.

I'll see if this shorter message goes through.

so, what is the prima facia speed? It makes a difference.

for those that wish to attempt to figure out the prima facia limit, check here:

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/2010/title9/ar21/ch5.html

and here fior the definition of urban or urbanized are should you think it applicable.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/23/101

 

[Salsawood]

Replies are not posted. Why?

Salsawood, posts are generally flagged for review if there are commercial or advertising links or messages in them (and sometimes for other reasons).

You stated in your last post that aie has a case. Did your longer message explain exactly why you believe aie has a case? Do you reside in Indiana or are you familiar with US-31?

- There is nothing commercial in my replies. Solid information and grounds for making a case for not guilty.
Links are to Indiana statutes and manuals and guidelines used by every state. I have researched the Indiana laws and scanned street view maps of the roads, found signs and measured distances on the roads. If your system is automatically flagging my replies due to URL links, tell me, i will edit them.

 

[TheGeekess]

- There is nothing commercial in my replies. Solid information and grounds for making a case for not guilty.
Links are to Indiana statutes and manuals and guidelines used by every state. I have researched the Indiana laws and scanned street view maps of the roads, found signs and measured distances on the roads. If your system is automatically flagging my replies due to URL links, tell me, i will edit them.

Stop trying to post links, then. The system thinks you are trying to spam.

 

[Salsawood]

Type of road.

so, what is the prima facia speed? It makes a difference.

for those that wish to attempt to figure out the prima facia limit, check here:

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/2010/title9/ar21/ch5.html

and here fior the definition of urban or urbanized are should you think it applicable.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/23/101

~ The only source for the type of road is the Indiana DOT. Trying to guess whether this is an urbanized area w population of 50,000 or more is not definitive. The definitions of urbanized is just that, a definition. You need to know the type of road and prima facie speed as set in Indiana codes title 9, chapter 5.

 

[quincy]

- There is nothing commercial in my replies. Solid information and grounds for making a case for not guilty.
Links are to Indiana statutes and manuals and guidelines used by every state. I have researched the Indiana laws and scanned street view maps of the roads, found signs and measured distances on the roads. If your system is automatically flagging my replies due to URL links, tell me, i will edit them.

As a new forum member, if you are trying to post links and/or images of street view maps and signs, these will generally be flagged for review. Do not post maps or links - just provide your solid information showing why you believe aie can successfully fight his ticket - and your posts should be okay.

Are you from Indiana, are you familiar with fighting traffic tickets in that state, or is your information based on your research alone?


(did you report my other post?)