ticketed for late left turn on red arrow

[artasanoutlet]

What is the name of your state? arizona

i got a ticket for turning on a red arrow light. it was too late for me to stop safely and the car in front of me started going incredibly slow leaving me in the intersection for an extended period of time.

i immediately turned into a parking lot to stop and eat my lunch, when a cop approached me. i didn't even know i was pulled over. he didn't use his siren or lights to alert me. i was already parked.

can i contest this ticket? it was yellow when i left the turn lane and i was aware that it had turned red while i was in the intersection and tried to safely exit the intersection.

you can't back up, what was i to do? i need help.

 

[racer72]

If you had driven defensively, you would have known to wait at the stop line and not enter the intersection till you could clear the intersection legally. Nothing else in your post suggests you have a valid defense to the citation. I say pay it and learn from it.

 

[NotACopOrLawyer]

I disagree strongly with Racer72.

(I am assuming that AZ law is same as other 49 states.)

If you had any part of your vehicle across the limit line before the light turned red, you had the right to complete your turn once the opposing traffic cleared or stopped so that you could safely proceed. It doesn't matter if the signal was red by the time you finished - that happens all the time. I live in a congested city. If everyone here held their car back as was suggested, the congestion would be worse. Instead of 3 or 4 cars getting thru on a cycle, only 2 or 3 would. If Racer72 is practising what he preaches, I guess the heat sensor on the back of his neck isn't working too good.

So, fight it. But keep in mind that it will be your word against the officer's. You will also want to check to see what the judge's policy is about giving traffic school to people who have fought and lost. Because I assume you want to keep the point off your record.

In many courts very few of the officers show up for the trials. If they don't show up, the case is dismissed. You may want to visit the court on a trial day and watch for a while, see what the odds are. You will need to be there right at the beginning of the trial session, because that is when the "no officer" cases are dismissed.

NACOL

 

[CdwJava]

What is the name of your state? arizona

i got a ticket for turning on a red arrow light. it was too late for me to stop safely and the car in front of me started going incredibly slow leaving me in the intersection for an extended period of time.

i immediately turned into a parking lot to stop and eat my lunch, when a cop approached me. i didn't even know i was pulled over. he didn't use his siren or lights to alert me. i was already parked.

can i contest this ticket? it was yellow when i left the turn lane and i was aware that it had turned red while i was in the intersection and tried to safely exit the intersection.

you can't back up, what was i to do? i need help.

Specifically what code section were you cited for?

- Carl

 

[racer72]

I disagree strongly with Racer72.

(I am assuming that AZ law is same as other 49 states.)

If you had any part of your vehicle across the limit line before the light turned red, you had the right to complete your turn once the opposing traffic cleared or stopped so that you could safely proceed. It doesn't matter if the signal was red by the time you finished - that happens all the time. I live in a congested city. If everyone here held their car back as was suggested, the congestion would be worse. Instead of 3 or 4 cars getting thru on a cycle, only 2 or 3 would. If Racer72 is practising what he preaches, I guess the heat sensor on the back of his neck isn't working too good.

So, fight it. But keep in mind that it will be your word against the officer's. You will also want to check to see what the judge's policy is about giving traffic school to people who have fought and lost. Because I assume you want to keep the point off your record.

In many courts very few of the officers show up for the trials. If they don't show up, the case is dismissed. You may want to visit the court on a trial day and watch for a while, see what the odds are. You will need to be there right at the beginning of the trial session, because that is when the "no officer" cases are dismissed.

NACOL

Yes, I drive as I preach. My state has a specific statute that makes entering an intersection that cannot be cleared legally an infraction. And I learned the stop line rule at the Bob Bondurant school of high performance driving, located in of all places, Arizona. And driving like that does not effect traffic at all. A smart driver will know when they can safely enter the intersection without holding up traffic or running red lights. And the nice part is, I'll never have to worry about getting pulled over for running a red light.

 

[wirry1422]

Sorry racer, but you're totally wrong on this one. Arizona and every other state in the US gives the right-of-way for turning left first to oncoming traffic, and once oncoming traffic has cleared the intersection, vehicles turning left which have already entered the intersection, ie more than half of the vehicle has crossed the stop-line, must complete their left turn in order to safely clear the intersection and comply with the law. In other words it would be illegal for a left-turning vehicle already within the intersection before the light turns red, to remain there and not finish turning. The law does not say that only one left-turning vehicle at a time may enter the intersection while the light is green, as you suggest. The law is clear that left-turning vehicles are to enter the intersection while the light is green those vehicles within the intersection are permitted to make their turn whenever the clearance of oncoming traffic allows, whether the light has changed or not is irrelevant for those vehicles already within the intersection. There is no limit to how many left-turning vehicles may cross the stop line while the light remains green. Howe3ver the presence of opposite direction left turning traffic effectively dictates the limit that the line of left-turning cars may reach in their forward motion within the intersection. Therefore the width of the intersection effectively and legally dictates how many left turners can cross the stop line while the light is green. Any left-turning vehicle that crosses the stop line at or after the moment the light turns red in order to make a left-turn is in violation of the law. So if space allows more then one vehicle to enter the intersection to await a left hand turn, then why in the hell would you wait behind the stop line, allowing only one vehicle to turn left in heavy oncoming traffic?? If i were a cop, racer, i would cite you for obstructing the turning movement of traffic, and/or failure to obey the right-of-way. As a side-note, at lights that have specific left-turn arrows, once the arrow turns red, you cannot wait within the intersection for oncoming traffic to clear (or for their light to turn red) to turn left, as you can at intersections without seperate left turn arrows; you can only enter the intersection and turn when the left-turn arrow is green, the traffic light for thru-traffic has no effect on you, a it normally would at a regular intersection, so you may be guilty.

 

[CdwJava]

Wirry, that's not true in every state. Even in CA there are vehicle code sections that require a driver NOT to enter the intersection unless the turn can be completed. It is rarely enforced but it does exist.

In CA there is no law that says that the bumper, half the car, or even the whole car must pass the limit line to make it legally "safe" in the intersection. This is a myth - a commonly related one, but a myth all the same.

I don't pretend to know what the law in AZ says hence the reason I asked for the specific section the OP was cited for.

- Carl

 

[wirry1422]

I know the laws you speak of regarding thru traffic entering an intersection. It simply states that all thru traffic shall remain behind the intersection until they can safely and legally clear that intersection. However, i have never heard of that law being applicable to turning vehicles, especially left turning vehicles. How can a law dictate that a left-turning vehicle cannot enter until it can complete the turn and clear the intersection? As a left-turning driver, it would be impossible for me to anticipate with anything close to a legal degree of certaintly that I can complete a left turn before the light changes. There are too many variables in turning left including oncoming traffic clearing the intersection or not, and thru traffic on the cross street moving ahead prematurely. How am i to know if the opposing traffic will get held up or not, you can't drive thru your rearview mirror and try to ananlyz whether cross traffic will begin moving. You see what i mean, a law like that could not possibly apply to left-turners. Their turns are dictated by the rules i stated (in most states, i can't say "every" state with 100% certainty.)