Ticketed by pace

[saluteTOme]

What is the name of your state? NJ

I was getting on the NJ Turnpike and I took the car lanes. While merging the people in front of me were so frigging slow and I didn't think it was a safe situation and I moved over to the middle lane and gunned it to pass the people that I thought may shoot over and possibly cause a problem. I might of gotten to 80/85 but it wasnt for long until I passed those people. I didn't hit the brake to slow down, I just got off the throttle. A little ways down, I then moved over to the fast lane and was keeping up with the flow of traffic and in my rear view mirror I saw a state trooper which isn't too abnormal cause they FLY and basically force you to move over for them. So when there was a gap in the middle lane, I moved over. As I was moving over, I noticed the frigging amber light of death. When the gap in the middle lane got to him, he moved over behind me and threw on the lights. (wonderful!) Pull over, use blinkers and then hazards and leave him room on my right side so he didn't have to be on the side of traffic...Here's the dialog more or less.

Trooper: License and registration please
me: I'm sorry, what? (traffic making a lot of noise)
Trooper: Turn your radio off and license and registration please (I had my radio on 3 which I did mean to put to zero but with nerves and being pissed I was pulled over, I didn't realize)
Me: (I turned off my mp3 player) Sorry (started to get my things out) May I ask why I am pulled over?
Trooper: I pulled you over for speeding.
Me: Really?
Trooper: Yes, how fast you think you were going?
Me: 65...70 MAYBE
Trooper: I guess you didn't see me, I was in the truck lanes going 80 and you were pulling away from me
Me: Well I was speeding a bit when I 1st got on to the turnpike to pass some people but I slowed down after that.
Trooper: Where are you going?
Me: (I had microphones on my front seat) I am running these down to my boss in our main office in Cranbury.
Trooper: So you're coming from home?
Me: Yes and no, I work out of the Sheraton hotel in raritan center and I had to pick these up before I went to my main office. But before then, I was at home.
Trooper: Have you ever been pulled over before for a moving violation?
Me: Yea, only one other time then this on 287.
Trooper: For?
Me: The trooper got me on a pace but I went to court and the prosecutor plead me down to unsafe driving since he didn't think there was enough proof.
Trooper: So you don't have any points?
Me: Absolutely not.
Trooper: Okay, let me look up your information.

He's in his cruiser so some time. I see him writing so I know I am screwed. I am hoping he will let me go for a seat belt ticket (I was wearing my seat belt, but maybe to get me out of speeding) but I doubt that would be the case. He gets out of the car, and I see a long piece of paper in the hand which confirmed my worries.

Trooper: Heres your items (hands me my License and registration) (then hands me the ticket) You're old enough that you don;t need me to give you a lecture but you were pulling away from me so I jumped over to the car lanes. You can do what you did the 1st time you got pulled over and goto court and get it plead down. I also gave you a bit of a brake, but you really need to watch your surroundings, ie (yea, he actually said ie) Police. Have a good day.

Now I am sure there was other dialog, but that is what I can remember. The trooper wasn't a dick at all...I mean, in any other case, I would of befriended him, ha. But I looked at the ticket as he was talking to me. 74 in a 65 and by Pace. Also means that my fines will be doubled since I was in a 65mph zone.

Here is my options as I see it.
1)Call my insurance company and see how much if any my rate will go up, and add that to my fine and see if that out weighs the fines if I would plead down. And just take it (2 point ticket btw)
2) Goto court and try to plead down to unsafe driving again and the 1st time, the fines ran me ~$350 but I am not positive if the fines will be more since it's my 2nd unsafe offense. I will have to look that up.
3) Goto court and fight the ticket all the way.

If I choose #3, can anyone find anything in my explanation/dialog that I could use to fight the ticket? I know things differ from state to state, but most states have similar ways as for getting out of things. I was also thinking that he admitted to speeding and he wasn't in an emergency situation or had his lights on. I mean that lawyer in OR or WA wrote a ticket to a cop who illegally parked. Could I use that? Also, would the distance between us be too much legally to be used for a pace? Also, is there a certain distance that a pace has to be established?

I know its a long post, I thank anyone and everyones help to save me some money cause I am broke and going to be out of a job in a week.

[fueledbymusic]

I always heard that: Speed limits could NEVER be exceeded, ever! Not even for any sort of good reason ; even for a short time!

Evidently, you can speed up to pass someone, BUT ONLY AS LONG AS YOU DON'T GO OVER THE SPEED LIMIT.

[Maestro64]

yeah you can fight a pace ticket, you have to look up the law in NJ and see what the rules are most require the pace to occur for some distance like quarter of a mile and since he was not directly behind you and in other lines with traffic around him it will be hard for him to prove that his speed was matching your speed. However, he most likely will say your speed was greater than his since you were pulling away and then he had to catch up with you.

But your ticket is for a speed not for going in excess of the PSL, so he has to be able to justify your actual speed.

Next, anything you said to him could be brought up in court, assuming he remember it or wrote it down. He probably went back to his car and wrote down elements of your conversation. Now if you want to know for sure you can file a request of discovery and ask for his copy of the ticket front and back and his notes he made that day to see what he wrote down. While your at it ask for cal cert for his speedometer, and the maintenance record for the car to see if any that can effect the speedometer was messed with like tires being changed.

The Oregon case you are talking about is that a guy beat his speeding ticket because the officer was illegal park in the median of the highway without his marker lights on at night. the guy was able to show that police procedures required the officer to follow all traffic rules and regulations during the normal course of his duties unless he is responding to an emergency. Because he was illegal park the ticket was fruit form the poised tree and the judge agreed and tossed the ticket.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Maestro64

The Oregon case you are talking about is that a guy beat his speeding ticket because the officer was illegal park in the median of the highway without his marker lights on at night. the guy was able to show that police procedures required the officer to follow all traffic rules and regulations during the normal course of his duties unless he is responding to an emergency. Because he was illegal park the ticket was fruit form the poised tree and the judge agreed and tossed the ticket.

Can you send a link or the name of the case? If such a case exists, it is a local decision and certainly not binding very far outside of that jurisdiction as the issues involved are seperate matters unless OR law specifically requires these things from the officer. At MOST it is binding on a limited circumstance in the state of OR.

- Carl

[CdwJava]

Okay, it is a Washington case, and was valid in only that one case by that particular judge. Other judges can take it or leave it as they wish. In other words, it set no case law or precedent.

[url]http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/334067_ticket03.html[/url]

- Carl

[saluteTOme]

The WA case I was talking about was actually the lawyer who was walking around town or w/e and wrote a citizens ticket to a police officer for parking in a fire zone while the cop ate lunch. I dunno how far that case has gone thus far, but I could always find a lawyer if it came to that and ask if they could do it pro-bono if they wanted to write a ticket to the cop and make a news affair of it but I really don't think I want to go that way, but I'd still like it to be an option.

But that case you state could help although I think he did everything by the books.

[Maestro64]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Okay, it is a Washington case, and was valid in only that one case by that particular judge. Other judges can take it or leave it as they wish. In other words, it set no case law or precedent.

[url]http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/334067_ticket03.html[/url]

- Carl

Yeah I got the state wrong, and you are correct it up to the judge in a situation like that, but you have to admit the guy did his research and present the defense well enough for the judge to consider it even though she never sited the reason why she dismissed the case.

PA has similar law where it clearly state that no one can stop or park their vehicle or drive upon private properly without the express written permission of the owner. The only except is in case of an emergency. The police from time to time use people's private property to set up their speed enforcement operations. It would be interesting to see someone use that defense.

[Hey There]

5-19-08
saluteTOme

the site Speeding Ticket--Fighting or Plea Bargaining(Google it) has information from the start of a ticket through trial.
For other information on the internet
KEY WORDS will bring up websites to check out;
such as:New Jersey Traffic Ticket
Fight That Ticket
Speeding Ticket FAQ etc.
and the other info posted by Maestro64 and CdwJava
should prove helpful

Best Regards,
Hey There