Traffic citation Yellow light
What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania
First I would like to thank everyone in advance for their time and for any advice that you have to offer.
I received a traffic citation on Friday November 8th, in Erie County in Wesleyville Borough, a couple miles east of Erie, PA.
I was traveling southbound on Water St. (near the General Electric Plant). I approached the intersection of Water St. and Buffalo Rd. where the single lane turns into two lanes. One turns left and one turns right. Both lanes have traffic light arrows. When I approached the intersection, I turned right. When I had began to turn right, the green arrow changed to yellow. I proceeded through the intersection.
About half a mile or so later, I was pulled over. It was a typical stop. The officer asked if I knew why he had pulled me over. I told him that I did not know. He said that I had ran the red light and that I had turned right when signs clearly state that you cannot turn right on red.
I did not say anything and he issued me a citation for running a red light.
I will be dropping off the citation on Friday with a plea of not guilty. I will be given a court date to appear in front of a magistrate judge.
My question is: What is the best way to proceed with this citation? How can I best present my defense?
I did not turn of red. The officer was not behind me. I am 70% sure that he was traveling West on Buffalo Rd. He had no visual on my light.
I spoke to a lawyer this week who was able to offer me some advice. He said that it will be unlikely that I will win since I am going up against an officer of the law. He advised me to ask for the citation to be changed to a Section 3111 violation instead. This way there would not be any points assessed on my driving record.
The current citation says I violated Section 3112 sub-section A-3 II. Which is simply the red-light section of the PA Vehicle Code.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania
First I would like to thank everyone in advance for their time and for any advice that you have to offer.
I received a traffic citation on Friday November 8th, in Erie County in Wesleyville Borough, a couple miles east of Erie, PA.
I was traveling southbound on Water St. (near the General Electric Plant). I approached the intersection of Water St. and Buffalo Rd. where the single lane turns into two lanes. One turns left and one turns right. Both lanes have traffic light arrows. When I approached the intersection, I turned right. When I had began to turn right, the green arrow changed to yellow. I proceeded through the intersection.
About half a mile or so later, I was pulled over. It was a typical stop. The officer asked if I knew why he had pulled me over. I told him that I did not know. He said that I had ran the red light and that I had turned right when signs clearly state that you cannot turn right on red.
I did not say anything and he issued me a citation for running a red light.
I will be dropping off the citation on Friday with a plea of not guilty. I will be given a court date to appear in front of a magistrate judge.
My question is: What is the best way to proceed with this citation? How can I best present my defense?
I did not turn of red. The officer was not behind me. I am 70% sure that he was traveling West on Buffalo Rd. He had no visual on my light.
I spoke to a lawyer this week who was able to offer me some advice. He said that it will be unlikely that I will win since I am going up against an officer of the law. He advised me to ask for the citation to be changed to a Section 3111 violation instead. This way there would not be any points assessed on my driving record.
The current citation says I violated Section 3112 sub-section A-3 II. Which is simply the red-light section of the PA Vehicle Code.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
~As a quick read, he thinks you blew by after the light(s) changed to red.
Mr Police officer can see the light as he approaches from your left side, assuming he was down that road.
No turn on red is posted everywhere in that intersection and you were faced with a special right turn signal device.
5 lights. Red on top with side by side yellow and green lights below it.
You did not mention if it was night time, wherein it would be easy to spot the color of the light from down the road.
Even daytime, it is not difficult in that those lights are mounted across the street, not hanging in the center of the intersection.
But, there is an awful lot of junk there, lights, all kinds of things.
The practicality of the situation is this,
"When I had began to turn right, the green arrow changed to yellow."
A car already in the intersection has the right of way over any cars entering the intersection.
If you had entered the intersection, your car was protruding over the stop line (?), into the cross walk (?), past the cross walk. (?)
Someone has to make a decision. You, on whether to proceed, the cop on whether you ran the light.
How long is the yellow light?
Was there other traffic?
Did you pose a danger?
"Begun to turn right" is vague.
Did the light turn yellow as you were still turning, or as you were sitting there.
Were cars moving in and out of the intersection?
Did it turn red before you were substantially in the intersection ?
If you were IN the intersection before the light turned red, you have the right to continue and complete the turn.
So be real, how far INTO the intersection were you when the light turned yellow? Red?
Where were you when the light turned red? Precisely.
If what you say is true, not even close to a judgement call, what triggered the cop to cite you. ?
You sound confident you did not turn when the light was red.
Go down and look at the light again.
See how long the green, yellow and red lights are on through the cycle of light changes.
Yes, the courts will believe the cop over the motorist, unless you can make a sound and believable argument
enough to convince a judge this was a close call and he got it wrong.
It was a judgement call.
Or, it was just a bad call on his part.
He thinks you stole something. You "stole" through the red light, enough to say, you should have waited.
You will likely have a few minutes before the hearing to talk w/ the cop.
You can ask him some questions and see how hard and fast he is on his belief you turned on the red light.
But mainly listen, let him tell you what he saw, where he was.
It is when people talk, that they get into trouble and blow their case.
You might find he is amenable to a plea, and often a cop will defeat themselves in their own statement or vagueness.
People who are basically honest, not inclined to lie, will say things in a way to support their outlook, but might also be revealing some vagueness or areas of doubt.
You won't know that until you hear what they have to say.
Be smart, polite, innocent. Talk w. him before and see what he has to say.
If your court /traffic hearing is one that allows a plea to something else, take it.
Not even a witness in your car is likely to sway a judge.
The cop goes first in testifying on what he saw.
You can ask questions, where were you, what were you doing. Was he distracted.
Or was he sitting in the dollar tree parking lot looking for people blowing through that traffic light.
Go down the street where you think he was and look at the lights at the same time of day when you got the ticket.
Are the lights clearly visible ?
I see there are 2 columns of lights for yellow and green.
Why ? I don't understand how this 5 light device works.
There are 3 light boxes facing you with a total of 12 lights. Plus 6 other light boxes facing all the other directions.
Did he get a clear view of the lights when you were turning?
Could any other lights have obscured what the cop thought he saw.
He could have been in the parking lot of the Dollar Tree store and had a very good view of the light.
Where do the cops sit for such traffic enforcement around there ?
Sometimes these things are a quick judgement on their part and they did not have a very good view of the scene.
You learn an awful lot by going down to court and listening to how the court cases work, what cops say & what judges say.
Unlike most people who post here, and most we hear of, you sound believable to me.
You sound confident.
If you go down and eye the lights again and make a very good effort to recall exactly what happened,
do it standing nearby and do it driving through the intersection again and you might learn something.
You might learn, you know, I think I hesitated a lot, and my car was barely touching the cross walk lines,
and it would be very clear to someone that I moved through after the light had turned red.
You might otherwise, be even more certain you were right and you did not go through a red light.
Your goal, is to put doubt in the mind of the judge or anyone else listening, even doubt in the mind of the cop.
Often, someone testifying will state what they believe, not realizing there is doubt in their own story.
A more seasoned or hard ass cop might be well rehearsed and state what he knows will win the case.
You have nothing to lose.
Right now, you are guilty. Until you can prove otherwise.
Also, he may not show up and you might get the ticket dismissed.
Good luck.
