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  1. #1
    MikeMc5506 is offline Junior Member
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    Traffic enforcement on private roads

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

    I'm appealing a speeding ticket conviction issued by the CHP within the private area of Pebble Beach. This is a gated community, which charges a fee to enter. The court last year dismissed a case on the basis that a "Homeowners Association" could not hire a public law enforcement agency to patrol thier streets. While the CHP is actually hired by a dedicated community services agency, it is from request of residents and only for the purpose of patrolling thier private streets.

    Any inputs on how to pursue this argument?
  2. #2
    patstew is offline Member
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    Cool

    I can't imagine that private roads are exempt from state speeding laws! That would just be silly.
  3. #3
    JIMinCA is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by patstew View Post
    I can't imagine that private roads are exempt from state speeding laws! That would just be silly.
    I would think that enforcing speeding laws on private roads would be silly. If private roads are subject to speeding laws, then everyone at any local racetrack should be getting speeding tickets. Now that would be silly.

    What did the ticket say as location? Did it use a street name or a state hwy number?

    I would simply start by doing a discovery request and ask that the prosecution provide any evidence that shows that jurisdiction existed for traffic enforcement while on private property. Put the burden on the prosecution.
  4. #4
    HomeGuru is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMc5506 View Post
    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

    I'm appealing a speeding ticket conviction issued by the CHP within the private area of Pebble Beach. This is a gated community, which charges a fee to enter. The court last year dismissed a case on the basis that a "Homeowners Association" could not hire a public law enforcement agency to patrol thier streets. While the CHP is actually hired by a dedicated community services agency, it is from request of residents and only for the purpose of patrolling thier private streets.

    Any inputs on how to pursue this argument?
    **A: at what specifc location were you alleged speeding? Inside the HOA property or before you entered the property?
  5. #5
    CdwJava is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMc5506 View Post
    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

    I'm appealing a speeding ticket conviction issued by the CHP within the private area of Pebble Beach. This is a gated community, which charges a fee to enter. The court last year dismissed a case on the basis that a "Homeowners Association" could not hire a public law enforcement agency to patrol thier streets. While the CHP is actually hired by a dedicated community services agency, it is from request of residents and only for the purpose of patrolling thier private streets.

    Any inputs on how to pursue this argument?
    Yes, it is possible for a community to permit law enforcement to enforce state traffic laws within the community, but as I recall there has to be in place a local ordinance that grants these private communities the right to permit it.

    Also, there are sections of the CVC that are applicable to private roads. What code section were you cited for?

    - carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  6. #6
    Maestro64 is offline Member
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    If I am not mistaken the roads around pebble beach use to be public, at some point they were closed to the pubic due to numerous issues. Then they started charging to drive the 17 mile drive around the community and golf course. The first time I drove on it was free then a few years later took some friends there and cost like $10 to enter. At that time they had Renta-cop patrolling the area mainly keeping people from entering the golf course or private property.

    Carl will know the best, however, I have been told by a couple CHP officer they do not have any jurisdiction on private property. I use to belong to a car club in CA and we had a problem with people doing burn outs at one of our events which was at college parking lot, we call the CHP to have them removed and was told they could not since they did not have jurisdiction and the owners of the property was not making the request. The law could have changed since that time.
    Last edited by Maestro64; 04-23-2009 at 03:54 PM.
  7. #7
    CdwJava is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
    Carl will know the best, however, I have been told by a couple CHP officer they do not have any jurisdiction on private property. I use to belong to a car club in CA and we had a problem with people doing burn outs at one of our events which was at college parking lot, we call the CHP to have them removed and was told they could not since they did not have jurisdiction and the owners of the property was not making the request. The law could have changed since that time.
    No change I can recall off hand. Most offenses in the CVC are not applicable on truly private property, especially in those areas where access is not readily made. Some few sections are applicable anywhere, or upon any roadway, but most (including most speed violations) are not immediately enforceable absent some agreement by the property owners and a supporting ordinance.

    Where I used to work in So. Cal. that was an issue in several private residential communities. They would complain to the police about speeders, reckless drivers, an "illegally" parked vehicles, and we had to explain that theirs was a civil issue, not a criminal one. Unless the vehicles were blocking a fire lane or driving reckless because they were DUI, there was not a whole lot we could do in many instances.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  8. #8
    MikeMc5506 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeGuru View Post
    **A: at what specifc location were you alleged speeding? Inside the HOA property or before you entered the property?
    Inside the private property on Lopez Road. The roads are owned by Pebble Beach Company, and they decide what speed limits to assign. Lopez Road is a major thoroughfare, painted no passing stripes and the works but is posted as 25 mph even though it does not qualify as a "residence district" under VC 515. The 25 mph speed limit would not be permitted on a public road.
  9. #9
    CdwJava is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMc5506 View Post
    Inside the private property on Lopez Road. The roads are owned by Pebble Beach Company, and they decide what speed limits to assign. Lopez Road is a major thoroughfare, painted no passing stripes and the works but is posted as 25 mph even though it does not qualify as a "residence district" under VC 515. The 25 mph speed limit would not be permitted on a public road.
    The Pebble Beach Community Services District (including Lopez Rd.) appears to have an MOU with the CHP to enforce traffic laws in the area since December 2006.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  10. #10
    MikeMc5506 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdwJava View Post
    Yes, it is possible for a community to permit law enforcement to enforce state traffic laws within the community, but as I recall there has to be in place a local ordinance that grants these private communities the right to permit it.

    Also, there are sections of the CVC that are applicable to private roads. What code section were you cited for?

    - carl
    I was cited and convicted of unsafe speed, using radar. Going 40 in a 25. Used the speed trap defense because the road is not local and no survey had been done, but the court somehow came up with their own definition of a local road, so I'm appealling.
  11. #11
    HomeGuru is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMc5506 View Post
    I was cited and convicted of unsafe speed, using radar. Going 40 in a 25. Used the speed trap defense because the road is not local and no survey had been done, but the court somehow came up with their own definition of a local road, so I'm appealling.
    **A: ok, keep us posted.
  12. #12
    MikeMc5506 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdwJava View Post
    The Pebble Beach Community Services District (including Lopez Rd.) appears to have an MOU with the CHP to enforce traffic laws in the area since December 2006.

    - Carl
    That's right. In fact they have a contract with the CHP to enforce their traffic laws. Last year the Monterey Court disallowed a case because the judge determined that the CHP had no jurisdiction for traffic enforcement there.

    Is that information available somewhere on line?
  13. #13
    CdwJava is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMc5506 View Post
    That's right. In fact they have a contract with the CHP to enforce their traffic laws. Last year the Monterey Court disallowed a case because the judge determined that the CHP had no jurisdiction for traffic enforcement there.

    Is that information available somewhere on line?
    I just found it via Google.

    As for the term "local road", well, a STREET is defined as a publicly maintained place for vehicles (which the Pebble Beach community would not apply to), and a ROAD is not applicable to privately owned properties. So, it would seem that no survey would be needed for such a place as they can set their own speed limits as they wish ... apparently.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  14. #14
    JIMinCA is offline Member
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    Certainly they can set their own speed limits, but they cannot cherry pick which sections of the VC they wish to use to enforce it. If they use the VC, then they have to use it all... including the speed trap laws.

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