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Trial de Novo

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mcshiny

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I got a speeding ticket, paid the bail and had a trial by written declaration. According to the court's website, it looks like the judge/commissioner upheld the ruling of a court fine and for whatever reason, I was never given driving school as an option. My question is, if I request a trial de novo and appear in court, does the cop have to appear as well? I would assume so. But if the cop doesn't show, does the case get dismissed or can the judge/commissioner uphold the original ruling of imposing the court fine?
 


the officer will be subpeonad to appear. It is a brand new trial. The time frame for filing a trial de novo is very strict and must be timely within 20 days from the clerks cert of mailing.
 

mcshiny

Member
the officer will be subpeonad to appear. It is a brand new trial. The time frame for filing a trial de novo is very strict and must be timely within 20 days from the clerks cert of mailing.
Thanks for the info. Hopefully it will give me one last chance to have him not appear. I have my trial de novo in hand so when I get my notice, I will mail it out. Do you know how quickly the court issues another court date for a trial de novo? I checked the website and it said the ruling was entered on 5/28/10. I figure the notice should come this week. I have vacation schedule in late July so I was wondering how quickly they like to schedule these hearings.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
But if the cop doesn't show, does the case get dismissed
It depends on whether the officer contacted the court (prior to the time the case is called) and requested a continuance or if he simply did not show.

If he did request a continuance, then the judge will have to call the case, notify you of the officer's request and schedule the case for a new trial date, at which time you can object to the continuance and move for a dismissal... Whether the dismissal will be granted is up to the judge.

or can the judge/commissioner uphold the original ruling of imposing the court fine?
Nope, it either gets continued (scheduled for a new trial date) or dismissed...
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
Thanks for the info. Hopefully it will give me one last chance to have him not appear. I have my trial de novo in hand so when I get my notice, I will mail it out. Do you know how quickly the court issues another court date for a trial de novo? I checked the website and it said the ruling was entered on 5/28/10. I figure the notice should come this week. I have vacation schedule in late July so I was wondering how quickly they like to schedule these hearings.
The "Decision and Notice of decision" (Form TR-215) will be mailed to you shortly after the date the case was decided. You have 20 days from the date such noticed was mailed to submit your request for a TDN. And pursuant to CRC 4.210(b):

(7) Trial de novo
If the defendant files a Request for New Trial (Trial de Novo) (form
TR-220) within 20 calendar days after the date of delivery or mailing of
the Decision and Notice of Decision (form TR-215), the clerk must set
a trial date within 45 calendar days of receipt of the defendant’s written
request for a new trial.
The clerk must deliver or mail to the defendant
and to the arresting officer’s agency the Order and Notice to Defendant
of New Trial (Trial de Novo) (form TR-225). If the defendant’s request
is not timely received, no new trial may be held and the case must be
closed.​
 

mcshiny

Member
The "Decision and Notice of decision" (Form TR-215) will be mailed to you shortly after the date the case was decided. You have 20 days from the date such noticed was mailed to submit your request for a TDN. And pursuant to CRC 4.210(b):

(7) Trial de novo
If the defendant files a Request for New Trial (Trial de Novo) (form
TR-220) within 20 calendar days after the date of delivery or mailing of
the Decision and Notice of Decision (form TR-215), the clerk must set
a trial date within 45 calendar days of receipt of the defendant’s written
request for a new trial.
The clerk must deliver or mail to the defendant
and to the arresting officer’s agency the Order and Notice to Defendant
of New Trial (Trial de Novo) (form TR-225). If the defendant’s request
is not timely received, no new trial may be held and the case must be
closed.​
Thanks for the info. Forty five days is a pretty long time. I guess I can ask for them not to set the trial during the week I go on vacation since the Request for New Trial form allows for you to write notes or leave a comment. Another question I have is the new trial going to be held before the judge/commissioner who ruled on my TBWD? Or could it be someone different? Just wondering because it's obvious that whomever ruled on my TBWD didn't see it my way, so if I get the same judicial officer, I guess I should go in a different direction.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
Thanks for the info. Forty five days is a pretty long time. I guess I can ask for them not to set the trial during the week I go on vacation since the Request for New Trial form allows for you to write notes or leave a comment.
Court appearances are scheduled based on the court docket and what time slots are available. You're free to request a specific time period however, my guess is that it will not make much difference. Your trial will be scheduled when the court has time to hear your case. Alternatively, you can waive time (waive your right to a speedy trial within the 45 day period stated in the CRC I cited) but that may carry certain repercussions that you may not want to deal with.

Another question I have is the new trial going to be held before the judge/commissioner who ruled on my TBWD? Or could it be someone different? Just wondering because it's obvious that whomever ruled on my TBWD didn't see it my way, so if I get the same judicial officer, I guess I should go in a different direction.
... a question that is difficult to answer by anyone here. You can contact the court and inquire as to which commissioner is scheduled to hear traffic cases for the date your trial is scheduled for. You can subsequently request that a particular commissioner be recused from hearing your case, but that is a process that is quite burdensome and detailed, it must be done under certain time restrictions and requires you to show that the commissioner you're looking to recused is prejudiced against you/your case. And just because you didn't like the decision he/she rendered in your TBD may/may not satisfy that burden.
 

mcshiny

Member
Court appearances are scheduled based on the court docket and what time slots are available. You're free to request a specific time period however, my guess is that it will not make much difference. Your trial will be scheduled when the court has time to hear your case. Alternatively, you can waive time (waive your right to a speedy trial within the 45 day period stated in the CRC I cited) but that may carry certain repercussions that you may not want to deal with.


... a question that is difficult to answer by anyone here. You can contact the court and inquire as to which commissioner is scheduled to hear traffic cases for the date your trial is scheduled for. You can subsequently request that a particular commissioner be recused from hearing your case, but that is a process that is quite burdensome and detailed, it must be done under certain time restrictions and requires you to show that the commissioner you're looking to recused is prejudiced against you/your case. And just because you didn't like the decision he/she rendered in your TBD may/may not satisfy that burden.
Thanks again for all of the info. I was also wondering, when I get my notice in the mail to officially tell of the court's decision, will I get anything written by the judge regarding that decision? Like as to how he/she came to that decision? And if I were to ask for a copy of the officer's declaration in my Request for New Trial, would the clerk's office oblige? I'm not sure if they would send it to me if I just asked for it informally, like discovery. The budget for the state isn't great, so I wouldn't know if they would just make copies of court documents upon requesting it.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
I was also wondering, when I get my notice in the mail to officially tell of the court's decision, will I get anything written by the judge regarding that decision? Like as to how he/she came to that decision?
Nope... Not likely.

And if I were to ask for a copy of the officer's declaration in my Request for New Trial, would the clerk's office oblige?
I cannot think of a reason why they wouldn't. I have heard of a few cases where a defendant's request for a copy was denied... Doesn't mean its right, I'm just saying it happens.

The budget for the state isn't great, so I wouldn't know if they would just make copies of court documents upon requesting it.
Regardless of how great or not the state budget is, you typically will have to pay a nominal fee for copies of any documents on file with the court.
 

mcshiny

Member
I got my decision in the mail. So my bail from the beginning was $342. Turns out the commissioner found me guilty, but is refunding me $114 back from the bail amount. And in the comment section, he wrote "Request for traffic school denied." I just find it odd that they didn't allow me to do traffic school. I'm beyond the 18 month requirement from taking traffic school previously and it is an infraction. The fact he wrote that in the comment section makes me wonder if I would be able to get it at a new trial. If I were to ask for a new trial, is there a chance I could get a harsher sentence? I guess I should be grateful the fine was adjusted and lowered, but I still kind of want to fight it, but don't want anything worse.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
I got my decision in the mail. So my bail from the beginning was $342. Turns out the commissioner found me guilty, but is refunding me $114 back from the bail amount. And in the comment section, he wrote "Request for traffic school denied." I just find it odd that they didn't allow me to do traffic school. I'm beyond the 18 month requirement from taking traffic school previously and it is an infraction. The fact he wrote that in the comment section makes me wonder if I would be able to get it at a new trial. If I were to ask for a new trial, is there a chance I could get a harsher sentence? I guess I should be grateful the fine was adjusted and lowered, but I still kind of want to fight it, but don't want anything worse.
You could ask for a new trial... Its called a "Trial De Novo" (an "in-court trial")... And related information is on the "Decision and Notice of Decision" (form TR-215) which you received. However, and with a TDN being a NEW trial, the fine reduction that you received is off the table... And there is no guarantee that the judge will allow you the traffic school option.

The choice is ultimately yours...
 

mcshiny

Member
You could ask for a new trial... Its called a "Trial De Novo" (an "in-court trial")... And related information is on the "Decision and Notice of Decision" (form TR-215) which you received. However, and with a TDN being a NEW trial, the fine reduction that you received is off the table... And there is no guarantee that the judge will allow you the traffic school option.

The choice is ultimately yours...
Thanks for the heads up. It's a long shot, but do you happen to know how much my insurance rate might jump with a VC22349 conviction?
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
Thanks for the heads up. It's a long shot, but do you happen to know how much my insurance rate might jump with a VC22349 conviction?
No idea... It depends on a number of different factors including who you're insured with, prior violations on your record... etc. It will also be pretty difficult to guesstimate how soon you will see an increase if any.
 
I got my decision in the mail. So my bail from the beginning was $342. Turns out the commissioner found me guilty, but is refunding me $114 back from the bail amount. And in the comment section, he wrote "Request for traffic school denied." I just find it odd that they didn't allow me to do traffic school. I'm beyond the 18 month requirement from taking traffic school previously and it is an infraction. The fact he wrote that in the comment section makes me wonder if I would be able to get it at a new trial. If I were to ask for a new trial, is there a chance I could get a harsher sentence? I guess I should be grateful the fine was adjusted and lowered, but I still kind of want to fight it, but don't want anything worse.
There are many (IMO) unscrupulous judges (commissioners) that use traffic school as blackmail to keep you from asserting your right to trial. Once you force the state to prove their case, they yank that. Unfortunately the traffic offender lobby in Sac is not very good. ;)
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
There are many (IMO) unscrupulous judges (commissioners) that use traffic school as blackmail to keep you from asserting your right to trial. Once you force the state to prove their case, they yank that. Unfortunately the traffic offender lobby in Sac is not very good. ;)
:rolleyes: .
 

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