Two tickets in three days...

[somdeb]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?CA

Oct 15: I am driving on a flat stretch of highway in Kern's County (46-W). It's an undivided highway with one lane in each direction and a 55 posted speed limit. One truck and a trailer up ahead is going "slow" (around 50 as far as I can recall/estimate). So I wait for the broken lines to appear, then speed up past the trailer, realize that the gap between truck and trailer is too little to get into... so I decided that the safe thing to do would be to speed up past the truck in one shot... since the truck is big and I don't wanna be smashed by oncoming traffic (of which there were none but I didnt wanna linger too long in the opposite lane), I press the accelerator and go past it... I guess the inertia stayed and for about 5-10 seconds I might have been doing around 90ish. After that, I slowed down and was doing what I believe is around 80-85.

Cop comes up... writes me a ticket for 94 in a 55 zone. I did not admit guilt or anything... just took the ticket and left it at that...


Oct 18: I am going in the carpool lane on the S-405 behind two other cars which are again going "slow" (cant estimate how slow... basically slower than flow of traffic in the non carpool lanes with no other cars ahead of them)... so I waited for the broken lines, sped past them and got back into the carpool lane ahead of them...

Two minutes later I get ticketed for doing 75 in a 65 zone... which, the officer explained, was my speed when I was passing them...



The question: In the first case, I know I was doing much more than I should have in the 55 zone... but ticketing me @ 94 was probably very harsh... this was my first ticket ever so I didn't realize I should have asked for his radar reading (he specified radar in the ticket)... In the second case, its completely bogus in my opinion... I have been driving on that stretch everyday for more than a year and a half and "normal flow of traffic" is always around 75 during that time...

So the question is how do I go about handling these two... I did some research and based on that I am thnking I should probably try to get over the second ticket with a driving school plea and not have it screw up my insurance any more... with the first ticket, I guess I dont have a driving school plea option since I was doing more than 20 above the speed limit... I know I dont have much of a case there but whats the best approach? Things are complicated now with the second citation and I am guessing the judge will factor it in when making a decision about the first. In any case, simply paying the fine and not doing anything about it seems not like the smartest option... Should I just go ahead and represent myself or is a lawyer more appropriate in this case... and also: is 94/55 reckless driving in CA? Apart from the fine, which I am guessing will not be less than $500, how bad can it really affect me? Would my licence be likely revoked?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated... and thanks in advance!

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

how bad can it really affect me? Would my licence be likely revoked?

My response:

The FreeAdvice Crystal Ball is in for repair until next Monday. Why don't you go to court, and then tell us how it all turned out.

IAAL

 

[somdeb]

Should have mentioned: I am in Los Angeles and would have to drive 200+ miles round trip to drop in at Kern's County court... and my date of appearance is scheduled for Nov 18... I am just trying to make the best use of this period to approach this case better...

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Should have mentioned: I am in Los Angeles and would have to drive 200+ miles round trip to drop in at Kern's County court... and my date of appearance is scheduled for Nov 18... I am just trying to make the best use of this period to approach this case better...

My response:

It's Kern County - - not "Kern's".

Okay, approach the court this way . . . bring some K-Y Jelly with you, because you're gonna get reamed.

IAAL

 

[InsuranceLadyAZ]

Why do people think if they're going the same speed as everyone else (and over the speed limit) they shouldn't get a ticket for speeding? Is the cop supposed to pull over EVERYBODY?

If you got nabbed for speeding twice in three days, I'm willing to bet there were at least a thousand times you were speeding and didn't get nabbed. Stop looking for an excuse and pay the damn fines.

If you find yourself always speeding to get to your destination, try leaving earlier.

 

[CdwJava]

The "flow of traffic" is not a valid defense in court ... if everyone was going 75, then everyone was in violation - you were just unlucky enough to get tagged for it.

And, no, your license won't get revoked for these tickets unless you already have a few points on your license.

- Carl

 

[Pugilist]

First, I'd like to apologize for the nastiness/lack of any useful advice, coming from some of the people who answered you before.

Plead not guilty and take BOTH tickets to court. There's always the chance that the cop won't show up on one, or both. If the cop does show up, you can still ask for traffic school, and get it, on the 75 ticket. I've never seen a judge, yet, who would deny it to someone who asked for TS right at the beginning of the trial session. You might even be able to bargain to get TS on the 94.

You should also prepare a defense, for each. Go to library, and ask for books on how to fight your ticket. Since the cop used radar on the 94 in a 55 ticket, have a look (in the books) at the Speed Trap law. Also look at the info about how radar guns, or cop car speedometers, have to be calibrated.

Consider using Trial by Declaration on the 94 ticket. It'll save you the drive, and give you TWO chances to win.

Finally, you can get an extension on that Nov. date. You can get up to 60 days added on, for free, and can get it by mail, phone, or sometimes even on the Internet. Personally, I would do it by certified mail with a return receipt, because I know that the Kern County court is very busy, and backlogged, these days. You want to have solid proof that you sent it!

Pug

 

[somdeb]

Pug:

Thanks a bunch for the reply... as for the other rants, I am ignoring them since I didn't come here to get a moral lecturing... I know I was in the wrong side of the law but I am only making sure that I get only as much penalty as I deserve...

BTW, for the 75 I am definitely gonna ask for TS... for the 94, is it worthwhile to get a lawyer... I did some research on radars/speed traps and think I have it to a point where I can ask for the officers notes/calibration notes/survey results for the area etc... but being as how I am nowhere close to being legally well-informed, I am thinking maybe getting an attorney to represent me wouldn't be a bad idea...

 

[Pugilist]

On the 75 my advice remains plead not guilty, show up. You have a good chance of the whole thing going away for zero $, if the cop doesn't show up. Don't grab TS prematurely (such as without asking for a trial), if you don't have to, because with your lead foot, you may need it for the next ticket you get.

Any of the "ticket" books at the library will tell you how to (easily) do a Discovery, which will get the officer's notes.

As far as your question about hiring a lawyer on the 94 ticket, probably the best way to find out would be to interview, on the phone, some traffic ticket lawyers who handle Kern county. When looking for them, don't assume that they have to be right in the same town as the court. Many traffic ticket lawyers are willing to handle cases 50 - 100 miles away. But talk to at least 3 lawyers, then think about it a couple days before you hire any of them. Also, you will be better equipped to tell if the lawyers are BS'ing you if you read the ticket book before you call them. For example, you would want to ask the lawyer if he would use a Speed Trap defense, and if not, why not.

Pug

 

[somdeb]

Update

Update:

I got the courtesy notice from the Kern County incident (94/55) and it says my presence in court is mandatory and that the fine amount will be decided on the day of my court appearance. Now seeing as how this court is 330+ miles round trip for me, I need some points clarified. Again, thanks in advance to any suggestions:

1. Does this mean I cannot do the trial by declaration anymore? Is there any way to not actually be physically present in court and get it resolved?


2. IF I need extension on the court date, what's the max I could get or is it even possible? (I'll call the court anyway to figure this out but wanna know this before-hand just in case the court is not too "helpful")


3. Now lets assume I do go to court... As I understand right now I have two options:

a) Plead guilty, request a fine reduction/traffic school and take whatever I get... (no confusion here)

b) Plead not guilty (this is the point where I am a little fuzzy)

Now for (b), does the officer need to be present with me on my first court-appearance (and therefore I have a chance of getting case-dismissed if he is absent)?
OR

His presence is NOT required and I am given a trial date and have to come back again... and it is at the time of trial that the presence of the officer is required... and it is the trial date that I can postpone?


4. Finally, what is the expected, ball-park cost for an attorney handling this for me... I am not sure if this is too wide a question... but let's say a 5/6-on-a-scale-of-10 attorney... I called a couple of places and they said it would cost me two-grand (which is way more than I can afford).


Thanks again for any pointers...

 

[Pugilist]

On any ticket, you're entitled to an extension. All you have to do is ask. Ask for 60 days. You may be given 60, 45, or 30 days. To get the extension, send the court a request, by certified mail, return receipt requested. Mail it at least a week before the date shown on the ticket.

Then go get the books I recommended.

Then talk to more attorneys. Some advertise here, on this site. Plus, I just did a google advanced search, on the exact phrase "traffic ticket attorney" and "bakersfield" or "kern." Lots of attorneys came up, both in the search results as well as in the paid ads.

Pug

 

[sukharev]

go get them!

Go fight both tickets!

Try to get continuance on one that was most nasty (94/55), you probably would be found guilty unless officer does not show. Also, do discovery for both tickets. Find out officer's jurisdiction, if it's federal try to transfer case to local court (don't know if it's possible in your case, just ask the court). It's possible in federal one.

 

[somdeb]

Help with discovery process

Thanks once again guys for all your inputs on this case... I managed to get an extension upto Jan 13 for the 94/55 case in Kern County and upto Feb 01 for the 75/65 case in Los Angeles County.

I got the NOLO book by David Brown and its pretty helpful... Anyway, right now I am doing a discovery process (mainly to learn what the officer had written in his notes) and had a quick question. Whom should I send copies to?

For the Kern County Case, I already have the District Attorney's address... I was stopped by the CHP so should I send a copy to the citing agency too? Since its CHP, should the address be the one on CHP's homepage (Sacramento)? Also, should I send a copy to the court too?

For the LA county case, I have the District *and* the City attorneys addresses. Same questions here... should I copy the CHP (this was a CHP stop also) and the court? Do I need to send a copy to LAPD at all?

Thanks again in advance... this forum has been a life-saver... if not for some of you guys, I would have been $500+ down by now with a huge insurance hit...

EDIT: Also, for the Kern County case, my court is in Shafter... should I be copying the City Attorney of Shafter... if so, where can I get the address... Googling it hasn't helped so far :-(

 

[Pugilist]

If you're not inside some city's city limits, no need to serve any city attorney. So, serve the DA, both by mail and fax. Also, send a copy to the court. Do it certified, return receipt requested, and be sure to bring the green postcard to court.

Pug

 

[somdeb]

Thanks yet again... and what about the CHP? Also, following Brown's book, I am having a friend do the proof of service for the certified mailing... should the fax be done the same way or can I fax it myself without a proof of service?