Watch out for fake red light camera tickets, in California

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?CA

When the commercial media discusses the cameras, there's one thing they always leave out.

At least nine cities in California are sending out fake red light camera tickets, to get you to identify the driver, so that they can send the driver a real ticket. (The fake tickets don't have a court's address on them, as they have not been filed with the court! Therefore, they have no legal weight and should be ignored.) It's a great con game - most people, not having heard anything about it in the press, fall for it. And, while the fake tickets are fully bilingual, I think that those not as familiar with American courts (and such things as the 5th Amendment) are much more likely to be fooled.

In case you need additional info, look at this free-of-any-charge website: [url]http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm#Fakes[/url]

I hope you find this of interest.

Not A Cop Or Lawyer... Or Judge

Interesting.

thanks for permission. edited by accident wrong post.

State: CA

For ylen13: Sure, OK to copy and post elsewhere.

Not A Cop Or Lawyer... Or Judge

[CdwJava]

And, of course, failing to ID the driver of the car could result in some unpleasant prosecutions and even the impounding of the vehicle as evidence.

There are other ways to skin that cat for owners that refuse to cough up the ID of the driver.


- Carl

Originally Posted by CdwJava

And, of course, failing to ID the driver of the car could result in some unpleasant prosecutions and even the impounding of the vehicle as evidence.

There are other ways to skin that cat for owners that refuse to cough up the ID of the driver.


- Carl

How can you prosecute someone for crime they didn't commite, woudn't be falce arrest if they knew that its not you in the picture? Also regarding impounding the vehicle as evidence, is there a limit on how long they can keep it for? Have a feeling they will not thru all of those trouble just for a simple red light ticket will they?

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by ylen13

How can you prosecute someone for crime they didn't commite, woudn't be falce arrest if they knew that its not you in the picture? Also regarding impounding the vehicle as evidence, is there a limit on how long they can keep it for? Have a feeling they will not thru all of those trouble just for a simple red light ticket will they?

It depends on what can be seen in the photo. A blonde female driver, and a blonde female R/O can result in a prosecution - even if the R/O wasn't the driver.

And an agency would have to release a vehicle after the time necesary to print it, but it could be an annoying delay for the owner.

There are ways to do it. I didn't say they would always be successful, but there are options.

And never having worked in a city where red light cameras are in use, I don't know all the little things that can be done. But, I suspect that the law will change to provide more options to jurisdictions using cameras.

- Carl

[sungod916]

It was my understanding that if they can't see your face most of the time they will toss out the picture.

I think what the original poster is talking about is a scam in the mail. They send you what looks like a real red light ticket and ask you to send money. It all looks very professional and real so people are falling for it.

I saw the story on the news here in Sacramento.

Originally Posted by sungod916

It was my understanding that if they can't see your face most of the time they will toss out the picture.

I think what the original poster is talking about is a scam in the mail. They send you what looks like a real red light ticket and ask you to send money. It all looks very professional and real so people are falling for it.

I saw the story on the news here in Sacramento.

what he is talking about is camera company tring to get you to id the person that drove your car after you notified the court, local pd, etc that it was not you who was driving the car. Once that is done they can't force you to pay the fine as you were not the one that broke the law and therefore they try to get you to tell them who is the person in the picture so they can send him the ticket instead.

ylen13 describes the cops' motives very well, but the sequence is more streamlined - the issuance of a fake ticket is not triggered by feedback from the registered owner. Instead, when the cops are first processing the photos and they see that the face photo is blurry, or clearly not the registered owner (wrong sex, or big difference in age), they can easily anticipate that if they issued a real ticket, the registered owner could go to court and tell the judge "it's not me" or ask "your honor, are you sure it's me?" So, to keep the registered owner from being able to go to court, the very first thing the cops do is send him a fake ticket (with no court address on it). They don't send out a real ticket initially, because it costs them $90 to have the camera company issue a real one, and that real ticket won't stick in court if it's sent to the wrong person or the face photo is blurry (if no fine is collected, the city loses $90). Only after the registered owner has filled-out the fake ticket form (disclosing the name of the actual driver) will the police issue a real ticket.

Not A Cop Or Lawyer... Or Judge

[Alchohol_Free]

of what you're state government is trying to do with the driving system if the public allows it. If law enforcment is being ordered to send fake tickets, then it's clear that this new obession with the driving system is not motivated by public safety. There's something else behind all of this. I have my suspicions, but that's for another forum.

Alcohol Free (previous poster) suspects that something worse is coming. I agree. My suspicion is that next step in California is automated speed tickets, for anything 6 mph or more over the limit. And I think it will come very soon, maybe in next month (as bill before the legislature).

Not A Cop Or Lawyer... Or Judge

Originally Posted by NotACopOrLawyer

Alcohol Free (previous poster) suspects that something worse is coming. I agree. My suspicion is that next step in California is automated speed tickets, for anything 6 mph or more over the limit. And I think it will come very soon, maybe in next month (as bill before the legislature).

Not A Cop Or Lawyer... Or Judge

are you saying photo ticket for speeding? if so that will really suck. I hope they will have a warning sign like they do for photo camera

[NWO]

Apparently in California they need to prove it was you. In ohio all they need is a clear shot of the license plate and the owner gets a ticket. Unless you have already reported your car stolen before the photo, you pay.

NWO is correct - In the west (CA and AZ) the tickets are "driver responsibility" so they have to have a photo of the driver's face and the judge has to be convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the photo is of the person who's on trial, not someone else. Once they have met that higher standard of proof, they feel free to whack you with a big fine - in CA it ranges from $320 to $380, depending on what county you're in. (And there is a new bill in the State legislature to add another $40.) And it puts a point on your record, unless you go to traffic school (which can cost an additional $60 to $70).

In 2003 there was a bill in the legislature to make the camera tickets "owner responsibility," like it is on the east coast and midwest. And with a much smaller fine. But it got shot down, probably because it would have meant less money coming to the various agencies that have come to depend upon the revenue.

I should have mentioned the names of the cities that send out the fake tickets. These are the ones I know of - there could be more. El Cajon, El Monte, Emeryville, Encinitas, Hawthorne, Inglewood, Maywood, South Gate, Stockton, and Vista.

Not A Cop Or Lawyer... Or Judge