What to expect, what to do?

[jamesflint1980]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Colorado


Good morning,

Alright so I have a situation where I received a "Following Fire Apparatus Passed Fire Truck Lights On - 10.23.108" ticket on 4-29-09. Ok so here's how this went down, let me know if anyone can, if there's no point to protesting this and I should just bite the bullet or if I could have the ticket reduced or voided at all.


Ok some points to add first, my wife goes to work at 4:10pm and I get off work at 3:00pm this works out so I can watch the kids. This day in particular I left work at 2:00pm so I could make it to get my vin # verified for my van and get my new CO tags (we just moved from Fairfield, IA).

Well I get to the DMV (20 mins away from home) and realize I didn't have my vans title with me, oops. So at this point I go home not in a rush at all to get my title. Well on my way back I get in my car to go back to the DMV its in better shape. I get there and wait to get my new tags and title as well as my new CO license. On my way back I'm on Research Rd a three lane 50 mph road. I'm in the far left lane when the fire dept stop light turns red. Fire Truck 1 exits the fire station with lights only on going the direction I was going and in the same lane as me. Fire Truck 2 pulls out shortly after and does the same. Light turns green. I am now positioned behind Fire Truck 2 which is going a consistent 35 mph, not building up to a speed but going 35 mph on a 50 mph road with only its lights on. At this point I'm about 15 mins away (going 50 mphs) from home and my wife needs to leave to go to work (the DMV takes its time). So making the decision that this wasn't a real emergency and the fact that Fire Truck 1 was still in the left lane a few yards ahead of Fire Truck 2 I decide to pass the slow moving vehicle and get into the FAR right lane in a 3 lane road.

At this point Fire Truck 2 puts its siren on as I pass it going the speed limit. I approach the next red light a block away and the fire truck passes me with the passenger fire man shouting obsceneties at me and pointing at his lights hanging out the window... Light turns green and I go, I'm now behind a pick up truck and I notice that both fire trucks turn LEFT at the next intersection 2 blocks away from the fire station... I go home not knowing I did anything wrong (I know ignorance is no excuse for the law but living in Fairfield, IA my interaction with firetrucks have been limited.), and my wife is able to get to work on time.

I'm laying down for a nap with my 1 and 2 year old when a police officer knocks on my door 2 hours later. I awake to answer and he asks me if I own a blue Chevy Lumina. Of course I'm going to say yes I was afraid my wife had gotten into an accident on her way to work. Well the officer proceeds to tell me I have angered the firemen of Fire Truck 2 as I passed them. When the lights or sirens are on for any emergency vehicle they rule the road. I understood that but I did yield to them as I didn't get in their way whatsoever. He then begins to explain that those big trucks make wide turns and he could have slammed into me not seeing me... Well here's the thing...


Fire Truck 1 which I didn't pass remained in the far left lane so I assumed they we're following each other... And the fact that there was NOT a place to even turn right at the point where my vehicle was parallel with Fire Truck 2 makes this even more unfair. I would have never passed Fire Truck 2 if I knew I was putting myself or the firemen in danger, I have a family to go home to and take care of, it's not like I was playing chicken with them and rolling the dice, the danger simply was non existent. So these firemen of Fire Truck 2 alerted the police of my disobedience of the law even though THEY knew that at some point 2 blocks away they were going to be turning left and that I posed no real danger to ANYONE.

So here we are in my living room and the police officer is issuing me a ticket in front of my two "scared" children because I made the firemen angry in what appeared to be a non emergency situation. That's all I have thank you for your time.

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

Ok some points to add first, my wife goes to work at 4:10pm and I get off work at 3:00pm this works out so I can watch the kids. This day in particular I left work at 2:00pm so I could make it to get my vin # verified for my van and get my new CO tags (we just moved from Fairfield, IA).

Well I get to the DMV (20 mins away from home) and realize I didn't have my vans title with me, oops. So at this point I go home not in a rush at all to get my title. Well on my way back I get in my car to go back to the DMV its in better shape. I get there and wait to get my new tags and title as well as my new CO license. On my way back I'm on Research Rd a three lane 50 mph road.

All of that is irrelevant!

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

So making the decision that this wasn't a real emergency

What led you to make that determination?

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

At this point Fire Truck 2 puts its siren on as I pass it going the speed limit. I approach the next red light a block away and the fire truck passes me with the passenger fire man shouting obsceneties at me and pointing at his lights hanging out the window...

And rightfully so... You should know (1st) NOT to follow an emergency vehicle so closely and (2nd) NOT to pass an emergency vehicle with it's emergency lights activated.

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

"Passed Fire Truck Lights On - 10.23.108"

Are you sure about that code section #? If you are, then what city in Colorado were you cited in? That might be a Municipal Code Section.

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

When the lights or sirens are on for any emergency vehicle they rule the road. I understood that but I did yield to them as I didn't get in their way whatsoever. He then begins to explain that those big trucks make wide turns and he could have slammed into me not seeing me... Well here's the thing...


Fire Truck 1 which I didn't pass remained in the far left lane so I assumed they we're following each other... And the fact that there was NOT a place to even turn right at the point where my vehicle was parallel with Fire Truck 2 makes this even more unfair. I would have never passed Fire Truck 2 if I knew I was putting myself or the firemen in danger, I have a family to go home to and take care of, it's not like I was playing chicken with them and rolling the dice, the danger simply was non existent. So these firemen of Fire Truck 2 alerted the police of my disobedience of the law even though THEY knew that at some point 2 blocks away they were going to be turning left and that I posed no real danger to ANYONE.

You can argue it until the cows come home... Point is, you were in violation of failing to yield to an emergency vehicle - Passing an emergency vehicle with its emergency lights activated.

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

So here we are in my living room and the police officer is issuing me a ticket in front of my two "scared" children

Which was your fault so don't blame anyone else for it!

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

what appeared to be a non emergency situation.

Not for you to decide! You have no idea where thery were going or why! So how could you decide that it was or wasn't an emergency situation?

[divona2000]

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

...When the lights or sirens are on for any emergency vehicle they rule the road. I understood that but I did yield to them as I didn't get in their way whatsoever. He then begins to explain that those big trucks make wide turns and he could have slammed into me not seeing me...I would have never passed Fire Truck 2 if I knew I was putting myself or the firemen in danger, I have a family to go home to and take care of, it's not like I was playing chicken with them and rolling the dice, the danger simply was non existent. So these firemen of Fire Truck 2 alerted the police of my disobedience of the law even though THEY knew that at some point 2 blocks away they were going to be turning left and that I posed no real danger to ANYONE...

You had no way of knowing where they were turning. They may not have known for sure either. When a panicked civilian calls 911 from a cell, and babbles out a "best guess" of where the fire/accident is, the rigs often start rolling in the basic direction, while dispatch gets more information. Those trucks might have needed to go right, or stage there on the road in front of you. When they are running code, they own the road. You got in their way.

-IGB beat me to it-faster computer, lol.

[Maestro64]

I personally never heard you could not pass a fire truck with it lights going. I heard you can not follow to closely, usually stay back 500 ft.

I personally have passed fire trucks and have followed them them since they have those great device that turn lights green as the approach, great way to get through traffic.

However, you might have been sited for the wrong section of the code, I could not even find the section you wrote.

Here is what I found on dealing with fire trucks

[url=http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll/cocode/2/68a07/69c49/69c4b/6ac98/6acd3?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0]Michie's Legal Resources[/url]


base on 10.23.108, this would Title 10 which is the insurance section of CO statues and there is no section 23 of that, You should have been written up against title 42.

I am thinking the officer made this up, you should verify that that is an actual section of the vehicle code

Here is the complete list of CO statues you can search yourself.

[url=http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=]Legal Resources[/url]

[jamesflint1980]

Well thanks for the replies I kind of knew I was going to have to pay a fine it just seemed unfair seeing as there wasn't a place for the fire truck to even turn right at the point I was parallel with the truck... I was just wondering if anyone knew how much this might cost me based upon the code the officer gave me I suppose I'll find out soon enough, lol. I've passed fire trucks with lights only on before in Tulsa, OK many times and it never seemed to be a problem there, I think they were just having a bad day or had a situation in the past where they did slam into a passing car. Oh well more of my money to the state, woot... Economic slavery for the win. Alright well thanks again and have a good day everyone.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Maestro64

I personally never heard you could not pass a fire truck with it lights going. I heard you can not follow to closely, usually stay back 500 ft.

Kinda hard to both "stay back" and pass them, don't ya think?

I personally have passed fire trucks and have followed them them since they have those great device that turn lights green as the approach, great way to get through traffic.

Great ticket, too.

I used to get free meals from one of the fire stations in the city I worked in because I used to write my reports in their back lot and when they'd respond to calls, I'd tag along and cite the dummies who did what your describing, or cite those who failed to yield. I got a citation and a meal out of the mix. It worked out well for all involved.


- Carl

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by jamesflint1980

Well thanks for the replies I kind of knew I was going to have to pay a fine it just seemed unfair seeing as there wasn't a place for the fire truck to even turn right at the point I was parallel with the truck... I was just wondering if anyone knew how much this might cost me based upon the code the officer gave me I suppose I'll find out soon enough, lol. I've passed fire trucks with lights only on before in Tulsa, OK many times and it never seemed to be a problem there, I think they were just having a bad day or had a situation in the past where they did slam into a passing car. Oh well more of my money to the state, woot... Economic slavery for the win. Alright well thanks again and have a good day everyone.

There are enough hazards for those guys to be thinking about, they shouldn't have to be considering that some yo-yo who is a couple minutes late will risk his life and theirs to shave a few seconds off of his day.

The fire truck could change course suddenly, and it might be in a far left or right lane because it has a greater turning radius and needs to cheat the angle.

This is not a case of a money grab by the state, this is a case of your unsafe and dangerous act.

Here is the Colorado Springs Muni Code for which you were cited:

10.23.108: FOLLOWING FIRE APPARATUS:

The driver of any vehicle other than one on official business shall not follow any fire apparatus traveling in response to a fire alarm closer than five hundred feet (500'), or drive into or park a vehicle within the block where the fire apparatus has stopped in answer to a fire alarm.

You were closer than 500' so you received a citation. Next time, please pull over and get out of the way. The call they could be responding to just might involve someone you care about.

- Carl

[Maestro64]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Great ticket, too.

I used to get free meals from one of the fire stations in the city I worked in because I used to write my reports in their back lot and when they'd respond to calls, I'd tag along and cite the dummies who did what your describing, or cite those who failed to yield. I got a citation and a meal out of the mix. It worked out well for all involved.


- Carl

Not going to disagree with you on that one, however, on a multi-lane road, as long as they have a clear lane, you just have to yield and yield does not mean stop and most people today seem to pull over and stop, even on the opposite side of the road. Also, no rule that says you can not go throw an intersection that the light is green especially if you are back far enough, Usually those lights stay green for a long time after the truck goes through. I never tail gated an emergency vehicle.

What I never understood is why police cars did not have those devices that turns the lights green. You still see the police trying to fight there way through a crowed intersections.

BTY, How did you figure out that was Local ordnance verses a uniform CO statue, that was a good find.

[FlyingRon]

Originally Posted by Maestro64

Not going to disagree with you on that one, however, on a multi-lane road, as long as they have a clear lane, you just have to yield and yield does not mean stop and most people today seem to pull over and stop, even on the opposite side of the road.

The LAW requires people to pull over and stop, not just yield.

42-4-705 (1)
Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle making use of audible or visual signals meeting the requirements of section 42-4-213 or 42-4-222, the driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right-of-way and where possible shall immediately clear the farthest left-hand lane lawfully available to through traffic and shall drive to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to, the right-hand edge or curb of a roadway clear of any intersection and shall stop and remain in that position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Maestro64

Not going to disagree with you on that one, however, on a multi-lane road, as long as they have a clear lane, you just have to yield and yield does not mean stop and most people today seem to pull over and stop, even on the opposite side of the road.

Yielding is not passing. Plus, it means different things in different states.

Also, no rule that says you can not go throw an intersection that the light is green especially if you are back far enough, Usually those lights stay green for a long time after the truck goes through. I never tail gated an emergency vehicle.

If you're 500' back, sure. But, I used to tag guys that were about 20'-50' feet back - not even close!

What I never understood is why police cars did not have those devices that turns the lights green. You still see the police trying to fight there way through a crowed intersections.

It's a strobe device. The mounting on the lower profile police vehicles can be difficult. The angles for the flashers have to be so low that they are often triggered by other flashes as well. I have seen agencies where they have had them, but they also report a high incident of odd traffic changes ... and, some drivers then decide to buy their own strobe lights and use them themselves.

BTY, How did you figure out that was Local ordnance verses a uniform CO statue, that was a good find.

Thank you. His "Location" in the header says he is in Colorado Springs.

- Carl

[Maestro64]

[quote=CdwJava;2266831

Thank you. His "Location" in the header says he is in Colorado Springs.

- Carl[/QUOTE]

Okay missed that, but still was unsuccessful at finding their codes... This time you're the better man....

[I_Got_Banned]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

... and, some drivers then decide to buy their own strobe lights and use them themselves.

Some drivers may even choose to make their own... A while back, I found the instructions for that on [url=http://www.instructables.com]Instructables - Make, How To, and DIY[/url]

Of course considering the fact that it is a serious crime.... I never attempted it!

[Maestro64]

Originally Posted by I_Got_Banned

Some drivers may even choose to make their own... A while back, I found the instructions for that on [url=http://www.instructables.com]Instructables - Make, How To, and DIY[/url]

Of course considering the fact that it is a serious crime.... I never attempted it!

I have to show that one to my son, he would like to build some of that stuff...

Actually there was a guy and I believe it was in CO too, he some how came across one of those devices off a fire truck and he mounted it to his car and used to cut down his commute time to work. Well he had it for almost 5 yrs before getting caught. Police said they notice lights changing over the years and could not figure out why, they file reports to the company who repaired the lights. Then one day a police officer was following the guy, and notice the light changing and he put two and two together and figured which car was doing it. Needless to say, he got in lots of trouble.