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01-03-2008, 10:04 AM
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 14
| | | where is the PROCEDURE that cops need to follow when issueing tickets?
What is the name of your state?
Arizona
Maricopa County.
I'm getting real sick of the courts always telling me it's my job to find out this information. But it's not listed anywhere. No where is it to be found in the Arizona Revised Statutes, TItle 28.
[url]http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=28[/url]
I was given a criminal ticket for speeding by method of "pacing"
This is grossly inaccurate and the cop was hauling ass down the road speeding up to me. So obviously his speedometer reading is questionable. However, I can't find anywhere on the books where it specifically says what a cop can and can't do when issuing a ticket.
What is the procedure they must follow when issuing certain types of tickets. If he paced me, then he must do this for this amount of time, then he must do that. And so on. Where can I find this information? |
01-03-2008, 10:11 AM
| | Member | | Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 85
| | | there is no set distance for "pacing". The officer need merely be satisfied that your speed is consistent.
There is no book of he must do this and then he must do that. |
01-03-2008, 10:15 AM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,083
| | | So, were you speeding?
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01-03-2008, 11:24 AM
| | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MD, WV - formerly WA, UT, AL, MS and OR
Posts: 563
| | | The "Highway Safety Desk book" is a great start.
[url]http://www.arizona-dui-defense.com/Highway-Safety-Desk-Book.htm[/url]
It has the guidelines for speed measurements from the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin. (NHTSA)
The Law enforcement Agencies are supposed to be certified and have training to these standards.
Based on what you have posted the guidelines were not followed - insufficient following time at speed exactly matching target.
Also, the patrol car speedometer would need to be calibrated and certified on the date of the reading.
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“[w]hen a statute is clear and unambiguous and the legislative intent is plain, the statute should not be interpreted by the courts, and in such case it is the duty of the courts not to construe but to apply the statute.”
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01-03-2008, 11:25 AM
| | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MD, WV - formerly WA, UT, AL, MS and OR
Posts: 563
| | | "The speedometer must be calibrated regularly and must be used responsibly. This method is somewhat subjective because it is done by pacing. It is recommended that pacing be done for at least two-tenths to one-half mile, at a speed at which the violator's vehicle is gaining just slightly on the officer. When a speeding car is detected and the clock is completed, the vehicle should be pulled over."
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“[w]hen a statute is clear and unambiguous and the legislative intent is plain, the statute should not be interpreted by the courts, and in such case it is the duty of the courts not to construe but to apply the statute.”
"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the 5th Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.
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01-03-2008, 11:27 AM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,083
| | Cepe, how can you jump to the conclusion that procedures weren't followed. What our OP failed to mention is how long the officer was pacing him BEFORE he "hauled ass" to catch up? 
EDIT: 2/10 of a mile is less than 12 seconds
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The information I gave is based on my 7 seconds of research on Google. Review the information yourself to make an informed decision. Also, the information I posted may no longer be accurate.
Communication is KEY - 10 mins of talking now can save you months of headaches later!
Masterfully stating the obvious to the oblivious! (Thanks SP!)
Tell it like it is!
Last edited by Zigner; 01-03-2008 at 11:30 AM.
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01-03-2008, 12:37 PM
| | Member | | Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 683
| | | Cepe makes a good point. However, you'll have to compare the standards he discussed to what the cop actually did. Your interpretation of what he did is much less convincing than his. Therefore, you need to request discovery so you can have all of his notes. If he states how long he paced you, or fails to state any distance, you could have a much better case. |
01-03-2008, 01:29 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,607
| | | The officer is going to get on the stand and state that you were speeding. the judge is going to find you guilty. That's the procedure. |
01-03-2008, 02:39 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California
Posts: 15,371
| | | And, of course, that "procedure" is only "recommended" - it is not "required".
- Carl
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01-03-2008, 04:15 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,404
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by lwpat  The officer is going to get on the stand and state that you were speeding. the judge is going to find you guilty. That's the procedure. | Eh, here in AZ, I've seen judges err on the side of the defense in speeding trials quite a bit, for similar reasons the OP is expressing. But, of course, we don't have the officer's notes so we don't know exactly what happened 
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01-03-2008, 04:30 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: OHIO
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| | | IMHO their are three sides: (1) The whole Truth; (2) The Officer's side; and
(3) The [OP]'s side; thus, a Court of Law!
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01-04-2008, 07:54 AM
| | Member | | Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 131
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by makesmewannagag there is no set distance for "pacing". The officer need merely be satisfied that your speed is consistent.
There is no book of he must do this and then he must do that. | Please provide the authority or reference for the afore mentioned statements. You seem to be implying there is no training or certification required for speed measurements or training manuals or IACP, NHSTA guidelines which is obviously blatantly false. What are your qualifications to be making such false statements of fact?
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01-08-2008, 05:30 PM
| | Member | | Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 85
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by trieroffact Please provide the authority or reference for the afore mentioned statements. You seem to be implying there is no training or certification required for speed measurements or training manuals or IACP, NHSTA guidelines which is obviously blatantly false. What are your qualifications to be making such false statements of fact?
| Please cite ARS statute that requires any set distance for pacing tickets. It is up to the judge's discretion, based on the details of the issuance, nothing more. Not on your training manual, not on your recommendations, and not on your mama.
You might instead look up the words guidelines and recommendations.
Didn't the fact that you attempted to have that post removed, and yet, just like magic it is back, tell you anything??
And by the way, when is the LAST time you left your cubicle and were even IN the state of Arizona?? |
01-09-2008, 06:53 AM
| | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MD, WV - formerly WA, UT, AL, MS and OR
Posts: 563
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by makesmewannagag Please cite ARS statute that requires any set distance for pacing tickets. It is up to the judge's discretion, based on the details of the issuance, nothing more. Not on your training manual, not on your recommendations, and not on your mama.
You might instead look up the words guidelines and recommendations.
Didn't the fact that you attempted to have that post removed, and yet, just like magic it is back, tell you anything??
And by the way, when is the LAST time you left your cubicle and were even IN the state of Arizona?? | That means you have no authority to cite or qualifications. APS is certified to NHSTA and IACP standards. You are wrong again.
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“[w]hen a statute is clear and unambiguous and the legislative intent is plain, the statute should not be interpreted by the courts, and in such case it is the duty of the courts not to construe but to apply the statute.”
"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the 5th Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.
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