Wrong Left Turn Ticket Advice

What is the name of your state? California (Los Angeles County)

I got my first ticket few days back in my 6 yrs driving. I turned left to a store parking where there was a "no left turn sign" posted. The sign was posted on the entrance of the parking lot on a small pole. The road has 3 lanes each side and a left turn lane. So the sign is very easy to be missed by someone who has never been there. It is only after one has started the left run and reached the entrance, it is noticeably visible but too late to do anything then. In fact I did not even see the sign until pointed to it by the office who pulled me over in the parking lot. There was another officer pulling over another vehicle at the same time. It seems they were sitting there waiting for easy catches. Now I know I made a mistake but I am feeling like I have been trapped by the city. This kind of wrong left turn could simply be avoided if they had put little yellow bars that they have put in many intersections all over Los Angeles, rather than posting 2 police officers ticketing drivers making a genuine mistake.

I want to contest the ticket and tell the judge that I could see the sign only after I started the turn. In fact I took the turn after a U-Haul just passed from the opposite direction in the next lane to the left turn lane and that might be the reason I could not see the sign. Since I was taking the unprotected left turn, I was looking at the opposite traffic so as not to be in their right of way and so I could not see the sign all across the 3 lanes. Ideally the sign should have been posted on the divider or somewhere near the left turn lane and not 3 lanes across. Do I have any chance on convincing the judge about it?

Los Angeles county also provides "Trial By Declaration" where I could write my story and send it via mail rather than appearing in person. Is it easier to convince the judge in a letter or in person?

Right now I am eligible for the Traffic School. Would I be ineligible for that if I challenge the ticket?

Thanks,
AG

I'm not familiar with the laws and how things work all that well, but I agree with you, it seems like entrapment to me. Especialy since you were doing what you were supposed to be (making sure it was clear before you made your turn, instead of focusing on poorly placed signs).

[rmet4nzkx]

What were the markings on the road?
You may also have to take pictures that clearly show what you are talking about.
Crossing left against three lanes of traffic without a signal or other traffic control seems Like a clue that caution was due. You can always be ticketed for various forms of unsafe driving.
Was it safe to proceed if the Uhaul truck blocked your vision and you didn't wait long enough to assess if it was safe to turn?

Originally Posted by rmet4nzkx

What were the markings on the road?

The store was on South-West corner of the intersection (assuming I am heading North). I took the left turn from the left turn lane. In CA this kind turn is legal even though this involves crossing double yellow line.

Originally Posted by rmet4nzkx

Crossing left against three lanes of traffic without a signal or other traffic control seems Like a clue that caution was due.

That happens daily in Los Angeles-CA. Most intersections don't have exclusive left turn signals and most roads have 3 lanes (sometimes 4 lanes also). Businesses exist continuously on both sides of the road and not all of them have turning lanes dedicated to them. That is why in many places the city puts little bars (about 2-3 feet high) on the double yellow lines where they don't want vehicles to turn in either direction. In this case they decided to just post a sign on the other side of the road.

Originally Posted by rmet4nzkx

Was it safe to proceed if the Uhaul truck blocked your vision and you didn't wait long enough to assess if it was safe to turn?

The UHaul did not block the vision when I took the turn. It was on the nearest opposite lane next to me so I waited. Once it moved, I glanced the driveway to the parking and checked the opposite traffic which was clear to make the safe turn. During all this anyone who hasn't seen the sign before could very easily miss the sign. And that is exactly what was happening. While the officer was ticketing me, I saw 2 more vehicles doing the same. The other police car caught the one of them while the other one became lucky as there was no third police car there.

Thanks,
AG

[rmet4nzkx]

Originally Posted by agup

The store was on South-West corner of the intersection (assuming I am heading North). I took the left turn from the left turn lane. In CA this kind turn is legal even though this involves crossing double yellow line.



That happens daily in Los Angeles-CA. Most intersections don't have exclusive left turn signals and most roads have 3 lanes (sometimes 4 lanes also). Businesses exist continuously on both sides of the road and not all of them have turning lanes dedicated to them. That is why in many places the city puts little bars (about 2-3 feet high) on the double yellow lines where they don't want vehicles to turn in either direction. In this case they decided to just post a sign on the other side of the road.



The UHaul did not block the vision when I took the turn. It was on the nearest opposite lane next to me so I waited. Once it moved, I glanced the driveway to the parking and checked the opposite traffic which was clear to make the safe turn. During all this anyone who hasn't seen the sign before could very easily miss the sign. And that is exactly what was happening. While the officer was ticketing me, I saw 2 more vehicles doing the same. The other police car caught the one of them while the other one became lucky as there was no third police car there.

Thanks,
AG

There is enough here to make me think that you didn't take the time to proceed safely, if you are eligible for traffic school it might be a good opportunity to brush up on your safety skills, glancing rather than looking and proceeding safely is going to be difficult to prove a case. I'll let Carl comment otherwise.

Originally Posted by rmet4nzkx

There is enough here to make me think that you didn't take the time to proceed safely, if you are eligible for traffic school it might be a good opportunity to brush up on your safety skills, glancing rather than looking and proceeding safely is going to be difficult to prove a case. I'll let Carl comment otherwise.

The ticket is given for wrong turn and not for unsafe movement. The turn was pretty safe to do as all 3 lanes were clear of any oncoming traffic. The driveway going into the parking was also clear.

I don't want to dispute that I made a mistake. What I want to say is that the mistake was not due to my carelessness but due to inappropriately placed sign. I have never broken any traffic laws before and I would not have made the turn had I seen the sign. I drive very safely and that is clear from the fact I get honked many times on unprotected left turns and stop signs as typical Californians don't want to wait for slightest extra second on left turns or at stop signs ... ever heard of "Californian Stop"

What I am asking you experts is ...

1) The chances of wining the argument based on what I have written here.
2) Should I use "Trial By Declaration" or "Court Trial".
3) Would I be ineligible for Traffic School if I challenge the ticket and lose it?

Thanks,
AG

[rmet4nzkx]

Originally Posted by agup

The ticket is given for wrong turn and not for unsafe movement.
Right but if you had taken the extra second or so to look rather than glance you would have seen both the sign and the police cruiser!

The turn was pretty safe to do as all 3 lanes were clear of any oncoming traffic. The driveway going into the parking was also clear. Then why didn't you take the time to read the sign?

I don't want to dispute that I made a mistake. What I want to say is that the mistake was not due to my carelessness but due to inappropriately placed sign. No the sign didn't make you glance instead of reading it, you were careless and you didn't even see the police cruiser.

I have never broken any traffic laws before and I would not have made the turn had I seen the sign. That is because you didn't take the time to read it and were not paying attention to your environment, now you have learned a lesson.

I drive very safely and that is clear from the fact I get honked many times on unprotected left turns and stop signs as typical Californians don't want to wait for slightest extra second on left turns or at stop signs ... ever heard of "Californian Stop" Uuugh? What are you saying here, you mean because people honk at you on turns it makes you a good driver? A California stop is illegal BTW, it is an example of an unsafe stop. You really need a refresher course for safe driving.

What I am asking you experts is ...

1) The chances of wining the argument based on what I have written here. Slim to none.
2) Should I use "Trial By Declaration" or "Court Trial". If what you have written is so unclear why would you want to send it in without an opportunity to clarify before the judge and have the officer appear.
3) Would I be ineligible for Traffic School if I challenge the ticket and lose it? Call the court clerks office and ask, personally I think you would be better taking traffic school rather than fight it, then drive more carefully from now on.

Thanks,
AG

Maybe someone will have other advice but I would seriously consider traffic school

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by agup

1) The chances of wining the argument based on what I have written here.

With pictures, and an amenable judge, its possible ... depending on what the actual striping and signage there is. If I saw it I could probably tell you outright.

2) Should I use "Trial By Declaration" or "Court Trial".

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Your call. There is no cross examination in trial by declaration, so you just have to hope that you can articulate it on paper better than the officer can. And I don't think you'd be able to present photos with a declaration.

3) Would I be ineligible for Traffic School if I challenge the ticket and lose it?

If you went to court trial and lost, you may not be eligbile. It is typical in CA traffic courts to warn that a contested cite may result in the loss of the traffic school option. Its certainly not a guarantee, but very often the option is removed.


Carl