Did a little work I'm not licensed for, customer not paying.

[CashPlease]

This is in California.

So I did about 1100 dollars worth of plumbing for a guy, everything is working correctly, and ever since I left the job site, I can't get a hold of him. I took a risk I wouldn't normally take because I do garden service for him every week. I am not licensed to do the plumbing I did. On top of that, there was no contract or invoice delivered or signed, he was out of town and I noticed an emergency situation when I was there, so I took care of it for him after only getting authorization over the phone.

Do I have any recourse? I know that when everything is above boards and legit, signed invoices and all, you can put a lien on the house. If I were able to somehow convince him to at least sign something that acknowledges I did the work, would that be of any help or am I out of luck because I did work I'm not licensed for?

 

[swalsh411]

Was it illegal to perform the work you did because you are not licensed? If so, google "unclean hands". If not, sue him in small claims court.

 

[justalayman]

If a license is required to do the work involved, not only would the courts not assist you in attempting to get the money, it is quite possible there could be fines imposed on you for working as a plumber without a license.

 

[sandyclaus]

This is in California.

So I did about 1100 dollars worth of plumbing for a guy, everything is working correctly, and ever since I left the job site, I can't get a hold of him. I took a risk I wouldn't normally take because I do garden service for him every week. I am not licensed to do the plumbing I did. On top of that, there was no contract or invoice delivered or signed, he was out of town and I noticed an emergency situation when I was there, so I took care of it for him after only getting authorization over the phone.

Do I have any recourse? I know that when everything is above boards and legit, signed invoices and all, you can put a lien on the house. If I were able to somehow convince him to at least sign something that acknowledges I did the work, would that be of any help or am I out of luck because I did work I'm not licensed for?

From the California Contractors State Licensing board website (http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Consumers/ReportUnlicensedActivity/WhatIsIllegalContractorActivity.asp):

It is illegal for an unlicensed person to perform contracting work on any project valued at $500 or more in labor and materials. Besides being illegal, unlicensed contractors lack accountability and have a high rate of involvement in construction scams. They also are unfair competition for licensed contractors who operate with bonds, insurance and other responsible business practices.

You were unlicensed, and what you did was illegal. As such, the courts are NOT going to help you collect from your customer. It doesn't matter if you had a contract, signed invoices, or any of it. You were operating as an unlicensed contractor, which means you have NO recourse.

California has been running sting operations, the most recent of which occurred just last week, where unlicensed contractors of all sorts were busted. You can read about it here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/07/19/5580957/79-arrested-in-sting-operations.html

 

[justalayman]

First time offenses for contracting without a license are usually a misdemeanor, carrying a potential sentence of up to six months in jail and/or a $500 fine, along with a potential administrative fine of $200 to $15,000.

The penalties go up with subsequent violations. A second conviction can mean a fine of 20 percent of the contract price of the work performed, or a $4,500 fine. Also, the unlicensed contractor shall be confined to jail for no less than 90 days.

Understand; not being licensed is a CRIMINAL issue. It usually isn't a good idea to walk into a court and admit you committed a crime/

 

[CashPlease]

Ok, lesson learned. I'll drop the issue and make a note to not do that again. I suppose I'm lucky to get away with only losing the money.

I think I ought to let you guys know, I did this kind of work many times for a small time contractor who sold me on this 1099 idea and it ended up being a scam. I worked hourly and was not paid overtime, on top of many other things I found it wasn't supposed to be happening. Couldn't compete according to him, etc. I would have a license to do this work if I hadn't disputed about my compensation with my "employer" as he in fact actually was. I turned in hourly time sheets and got personal checks without stubs, so all I could do about it is yell and walk out. I would not even dare ask him to sign off on my work experience. And in case you're wondering, I'm a natural born citizen and I'm legally able to be an employee.

Also, while I was very leery about doing this job, I'm sorry to say that in this state, it's more common to see unlicensed work on someone's house then it is to know someone who smokes marijuana here. I don't know where you guys are from but here in California I'm just about the only person who doesn't.

 

[davew128]

I'm sorry to say that in this state, it's more common to see unlicensed work on someone's house then it is to know someone who smokes marijuana here. I don't know where you guys are from but here in California I'm just about the only person who doesn't.

Interestingly enough, I'm 10 miles from the border and not only do I not use unlicensed workers, I don't smoke pot.

 

[sandyclaus]

Interestingly enough, I'm 10 miles from the border and not only do I not use unlicensed workers, I don't smoke pot.

I came from the heart of immigrant central (Los Angeles), and I also don't use unlicensed workers (never have, too risky) or smoke pot.

People will do what they think they can get away with - until they can't anymore, because they got caught or screwed. True story.

 

[CashPlease]

Well that's great you guys are so clean and proper.

I don't solicit for work I am not legally allowed to do. I have the business license I need to do the garden work and sometimes my customers come to me with other jobs that I am not allowed to do, and I turn them down. The cost of this job was mostly for a part. The work consisted of removing an appliance from it's connecting pvc unions, and installing the new one on the exact same existing unions. It was not the kind of thing where any kind of measurement need be considered. It was an easy job that needed to be done ASAP and I had the resources to do it. I know I probably don't have any chance in court, but please give me a break on labeling me a criminal. I don't walk around looking to make any kind of money with a total disregard for the law.

 

[justalayman]

It's not me labeling you a criminal. It's the law labeling you a criminal. Doing the work you did without a license is a criminal issue .

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

For $1100, it should have been a lot more than that. Otherwise you were attempting to rip him off and do not deserve to be paid regardless.

Well that's great you guys are so clean and proper.

I don't solicit for work I am not legally allowed to do. I have the business license I need to do the garden work and sometimes my customers come to me with other jobs that I am not allowed to do, and I turn them down. The cost of this job was mostly for a part. The work consisted of removing an appliance from it's connecting pvc unions, and installing the new one on the exact same existing unions. It was not the kind of thing where any kind of measurement need be considered. It was an easy job that needed to be done ASAP and I had the resources to do it. I know I probably don't have any chance in court, but please give me a break on labeling me a criminal. I don't walk around looking to make any kind of money with a total disregard for the law.

 

[CashPlease]

Or you simply do not know what the appliance is. That was a fair price.

 

[sandyclaus]

Well that's great you guys are so clean and proper.

I don't solicit for work I am not legally allowed to do. I have the business license I need to do the garden work and sometimes my customers come to me with other jobs that I am not allowed to do, and I turn them down...

Obviously, that's not true, since you accepted a plumbing job for which a contractor's license would be required in order for you to legally perform it.

For $1100, it should have been a lot more than that. Otherwise you were attempting to rip him off and do not deserve to be paid regardless.

Or you simply do not know what the appliance is. That was a fair price.

Since the job was for over $500 and involved plumbing, fair price or not, as an unlicensed contractor, you were legally prohibited from accepting and performing the work.

And since the customer chose not to pay you, they obviously either knew that you were unlicensed and couldn't force them to pay, or they realized that you were overcharging for the work you were doing.

By the way - if you are NOT accepting this kind of work on a normal basis, then how would you know what is and is not a fair price for it?

 

[CashPlease]

I told you I did this work for another contractor. That's how I know fair price.

There is much overlap in what I do for this customer regularly, and this job. The only thing that made the license an issue this time was the price. He understood from my legal history with him that I know what I'm doing.

I'm not going to go into all the details for you, but I'll give you this, without this problem being taken care of soon, it would have effected my ability to do the work I normally do legally and I would have incurred extra costs and possibly lost a customer thanks to problems that would have been a result of leaving faulty parts in place.

I informed the customer of the entire situation, they preferred I do it.

 

[sandyclaus]

I told you I did this work for another contractor. That's how I know fair price.

There is much overlap in what I do for this customer regularly, and this job. The only thing that made the license an issue this time was the price. He understood from my legal history with him that I know what I'm doing.

I'm not going to go into all the details for you, but I'll give you this, without this problem being taken care of soon, it would have effected my ability to do the work I normally do legally and I would have incurred extra costs and possibly lost a customer thanks to problems that would have been a result of leaving faulty parts in place.

I informed the customer of the entire situation, they preferred I do it.

Of course they preferred you do it. If they had hired a licensed contractor, they would have actually had to PAY for the services provided. They are also probably aware that there's nothing you can legally do to force them to pay, since they chose to hire you - an UNLICENSED contractor.

So you've incurred extra costs and paid for the privilege.