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Is it legal to operate an online pool similiar to an office lottery pool?

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Lottoman

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Tennessee

Would like to know if it would be illegal in Tennessee to have an office pool playing the Tennessee Educational Lottery online? The difference being the manager would not accept any cash, purchase the tickets or have possession of the ticket like an office pool. Instead each player would purchase their own ticket from an authorized lottery retailer, and retain control/possession of the ticket. All players would upload an image of their lottery ticket online so that all players could see the tickets in the pool. No one would have an advantage over anyone else as far as winning. There would be no compensation paid to the manager. Since Tennessee Lottery only writes one check the manager would accept the check on behalf of the pool members using IRS Form 5457 and distribute the proceeds.
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
An office pool wouldn't be a problem. Essentially they are sharing in purchasing a ticket.

Offering lottery tickets either individually or pooled online for sale is 100% illegal.
 

Lottoman

Junior Member
Online Pool

An office pool wouldn't be a problem. Essentially they are sharing in purchasing a ticket.

Offering lottery tickets either individually or pooled online for sale is 100% illegal.
You must have misread the question.

There would not be any "sale" of lottery tickets online or anywhere else by the proposed pool.
Each pool player would have to "buy" a lottery ticket from an authorized lottery ticket retailer.
The player would then upload an image of the previously purchased ticket online for all players
to see before the drawing of the lottery. The pool would not accept any cash, handle the actual
ticket or sell anything. The pool would be playing a state sponsored lottery and not offering a
lottery. In other words, identical to an office pool except being offered online., and not accepting
money to purchase the tickets, and having control of the tickets.
 

quincy

Senior Member
You must have misread the question.

There would not be any "sale" of lottery tickets online or anywhere else by the proposed pool.
Each pool player would have to "buy" a lottery ticket from an authorized lottery ticket retailer.
The player would then upload an image of the previously purchased ticket online for all players
to see before the drawing of the lottery. The pool would not accept any cash, handle the actual
ticket or sell anything. The pool would be playing a state sponsored lottery and not offering a
lottery. In other words, identical to an office pool except being offered online., and not accepting
money to purchase the tickets, and having control of the tickets.
I am confused as to what your office pool involves, even after your clarification. Is everyone participating in the pool sharing in any winning ticket amounts or is there betting involved?

Are you just wondering if posting a copy of the lottery ticket online is a problem?
 

Lottoman

Junior Member
I am confused as to what your office pool involves, even after your clarification. Is everyone participating in the pool sharing in any winning ticket amounts or is there betting involved?

Are you just wondering if posting a copy of the lottery ticket online is a problem?

Yes, everyone shares in the winnings that is a participant in proportionate to his share of the number of tickets uploaded and entered in the pool. If the pool had 50 lottery tickets entered and a player has uploaded two tickets then he would share in 2/50 of the prize. There is no betting involved. 100% of the winning would be distributed.

Yes, I am wanting to know if it would be illegal to operate an online pool with participants uploading images of lottery tickets. Just not the mere fact of "posting" but entering an online pool by this method with a written lottery pool contract.
 

Lottoman

Junior Member
Yes, everyone shares in the winnings that is a participant in proportionate to his share of the number of tickets uploaded and entered in the pool. If the pool had 50 lottery tickets entered and a player has uploaded two tickets then he would share in 2/50 of the prize. There is no betting involved. 100% of the winning would be distributed.

Yes, I am wanting to know if it would be illegal to operate an online pool with participants uploading images of lottery tickets. Just not the mere fact of "posting" but entering an online pool by this method with a written lottery pool contract.
Since it appears no one on here knows the answer to my question, I have contacted my state representative to obtain an official opinion from the State Attorney's office. This will probably take several months, but at least they should give their opinion.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I don't think you are creating an enforceable "contract" that would require the winner to share his/her winnings it the first place.
 

Lottoman

Junior Member
I don't think you are creating an enforceable "contract" that would require the winner to share his/her winnings it the first place.
Each individual would be signing a paper contract manually, and click "agree" with the contract online before being able to upload a lottery ticket image.
A signed contract and an acknowledgment should be sufficient.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Each individual would be signing a paper contract manually, and click "agree" with the contract online before being able to upload a lottery ticket image.
A signed contract and an acknowledgment should be sufficient.
Right - but that doesn't mean it's a valid (enforceable) "contract."
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
In many states gambling contracts are UNENFORCEABLE. Tennesee allows them but there are restrictions.

However, as Zig alludes, just having a signature is NOT all that is required to have a contract. In fact, signing an agreement between you and them seems lacking in a number of aspects. Your scheme even seems more nebulous than, let's say, ebay and getting ebay auctions enforced (at least in the US) is pretty much impossible.
 

Lottoman

Junior Member
Right - but that doesn't mean it's a valid (enforceable) "contract."
Are you saying that contracts by office pool lotteries are not valid and therefore non-enforceable?
The only difference between what I propose is that a manager in an office pool has actual possession
of the lottery tickets whereas in my plan each participant would retain control of the lottery ticket.
One aspect of my proposal that would be different is that the participant has to upload both sides
of the ticket with the name of the pool written on the signature line. Without this endorsement, the
ticket image will not be entered in the pool.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Are you saying that contracts by office pool lotteries are not valid and therefore non-enforceable?
The only difference between what I propose is that a manager in an office pool has actual possession
of the lottery tickets whereas in my plan each participant would retain control of the lottery ticket.
One aspect of my proposal that would be different is that the participant has to upload both sides
of the ticket with the name of the pool written on the signature line. Without this endorsement, the
ticket image will not be entered in the pool.
No, what I am saying is that what you are contemplating doesn't even rise to the level of a "contract" in the first place (legalities of the activities aside.)

If I tell you I'm going to give you $100 out of my next lotto winnings, heck, let's say I send you a signed & notarized document stating such...that doesn't make it something that can be enforced. I can change my mind and you would have no recourse.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Further a contract between me and Lottoman promising to give PoolPlayerA, PoolPlayerB, ... shares of my winnings in exchange for PoolPlayerA, ... giving theirs to me isn't a contract. The reason the office pools is that the players themselves have a contract with each other. If lottoman is a player, this is ILLEGAL. If lottoman isn't a player, the documents between him and the players aren't contracts.
 

Lottoman

Junior Member
Further a contract between me and Lottoman promising to give PoolPlayerA, PoolPlayerB, ... shares of my winnings in exchange for PoolPlayerA, ... giving theirs to me isn't a contract. The reason the office pools is that the players themselves have a contract with each other. If lottoman is a player, this is ILLEGAL. If lottoman isn't a player, the documents between him and the players aren't contracts.
I appreciate the input from you and Zinger. That is the reason I posted on this site. But I do not understand why if lottoman is a player, it would be illegal. Also, why it would not be legal to bind each participant if the contract states that the contract may be executed in one or more counterparts, each of which shall be deemed an original, but all of which together shall constitute one and the same document?
 

Lottoman

Junior Member
No, what I am saying is that what you are contemplating doesn't even rise to the level of a "contract" in the first place (legalities of the activities aside.)

If I tell you I'm going to give you $100 out of my next lotto winnings, heck, let's say I send you a signed & notarized document stating such...that doesn't make it something that can be enforced. I can change my mind and you would have no recourse.
As I told FlyingRon in a posting to him, I appreciate your input. I believe in Tennessee a contract concerning gambling, especially legal gambling such as the state sponsored lottery, is legal. Why would the "activities" of the contract be illegal, and why would what I am contemplating not rise to the level of being a contract?
 

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