160k in back taxes

[Robart]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

I owe 160K in back taxes from 2003-2012. Long story short I was self employed as a sole proprieter for three years that the majority of the balance comes from. I enetered into an installment agreement last year at 560 mo. since then I had one check return and missed another. After the missed payment I got a regular letter saying that I missed and not to miss another and call if I wanted to try and lower my payments. I never called and have not missed another. Last month I got a barrage of certified letters saying I defaulted and they were going to file another garnishment. I called then and after 3 hour hold and going through three different agents I finally got to a woman that said she was in the "non-typical" department? She asked some questions then said she didnt understand how I got that deal to begin with because by her calculations I could afford well over 2000 a mo. well I am struggling to make the 560 and 2000 will cripple me. She says that I "may" get reinstated and to fill out another financials and call back closer to the date on the letters that they say they are intending to garnish, which is coming up middle of next month. I did not rcieve my monthly payment voucher this month so I paid online without it. I am at my wiots end with worry about this and am starting to panic thinking I should just quit my job and go on the lamb. I am 46,heart disease, three kids that I have supported but their mothers claim,I have a long time live in that has 2 kids but she claims, I have no assets and our checking account is always at a low balance. Paycheck to paycheck basically. I work 60+ hours a week so my financials look like I am loaded income wise, but I am getting up in age and dont know how much longer I can keep that up. I do have about 50k in 401k that I would gladly give them for a fresh start. All of the tax resolution folks have told me I make too much for an offer in compromise but they also rooked me for about 7k when this all started early last year when they garnished me so I dont know who to believe. I dont know what to do. Any options other than playing hide and seek with them?

Thanks

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

I owe 160K in back taxes from 2003-2012. Long story short I was self employed as a sole proprieter for three years that the majority of the balance comes from. I enetered into an installment agreement last year at 560 mo. since then I had one check return and missed another. After the missed payment I got a regular letter saying that I missed and not to miss another and call if I wanted to try and lower my payments. I never called and have not missed another. Last month I got a barrage of certified letters saying I defaulted and they were going to file another garnishment. I called then and after 3 hour hold and going through three different agents I finally got to a woman that said she was in the "non-typical" department? She asked some questions then said she didnt understand how I got that deal to begin with because by her calculations I could afford well over 2000 a mo. well I am struggling to make the 560 and 2000 will cripple me. She says that I "may" get reinstated and to fill out another financials and call back closer to the date on the letters that they say they are intending to garnish, which is coming up middle of next month. I did not rcieve my monthly payment voucher this month so I paid online without it. I am at my wiots end with worry about this and am starting to panic thinking I should just quit my job and go on the lamb. I am 46,heart disease, three kids that I have supported but their mothers claim,I have a long time live in that has 2 kids but she claims, I have no assets and our checking account is always at a low balance. Paycheck to paycheck basically. I work 60+ hours a week so my financials look like I am loaded income wise, but I am getting up in age and dont know how much longer I can keep that up. I do have about 50k in 401k that I would gladly give them for a fresh start. All of the tax resolution folks have told me I make too much for an offer in compromise but they also rooked me for about 7k when this all started early last year when they garnished me so I dont know who to believe. I dont know what to do. Any options other than playing hide and seek with them?

Thanks

Its possible that some of the back taxes for the older years could be discharged in bankruptcy. I cannot think of any other option.

 

[davew128]

I'm not a BK expert, and I agree that if the tax debt is old enough it COULD be discharged, but it seams to me that there's probably a spending problem and having income that makes the payments would probably rule out a Ch. 7.

I have one right case now who has a $193k W-2, owes $170k from years ago, and the problem is renting a 4 bedroom house and $4,100/month and paying cash for one of the kid's college tuition at a large university. They have no idea how to cut expenses and live frugally (and with three adult children living at home not paying room and board).

That mindset is epidemic I'm afraid, though not necessarily applicable to the OP.

 

[Robart]

I'm not a BK expert, and I agree that if the tax debt is old enough it COULD be discharged, but it seams to me that there's probably a spending problem and having income that makes the payments would probably rule out a Ch. 7.

I have one right case now who has a $193k W-2, owes $170k from years ago, and the problem is renting a 4 bedroom house and $4,100/month and paying cash for one of the kid's college tuition at a large university. They have no idea how to cut expenses and live frugally (and with three adult children living at home not paying room and board).

That mindset is epidemic I'm afraid, though not necessarily applicable to the OP.

There is probably some truth in that, but it is not like we live lavishly. I earn 80k/ yr and I work looong hours for that. We have 3 teenagers at home, one is out of school and works but does not pay room and board. The other two are highschool age. We have one family car (in her name) that still has about 6k left on the note. I drive a company truck. Our rent is 1200 mo and we have maybe 2k in credit card debt (in her name as well) I am currently working out of town and maintain an apartment here but I recieve subsistance that just about covers that. We go out to eat probably more than we should, but usually its only when I come home for a weekend or they come out here. We have never really recovered from the month long garnishment in the beginning, then the additional withholding after I started getting paid again, on top of the monies paid to the "tax expert" that I thought was helping me. The brunt of the amount is from 2003-2006, 108k. the returns for those years were filed in april 2013.

 

[LdiJ]

There is probably some truth in that, but it is not like we live lavishly. I earn 80k/ yr and I work looong hours for that. We have 3 teenagers at home, one is out of school and works but does not pay room and board. The other two are highschool age. We have one family car (in her name) that still has about 6k left on the note. I drive a company truck. Our rent is 1200 mo and we have maybe 2k in credit card debt (in her name as well) I am currently working out of town and maintain an apartment here but I recieve subsistance that just about covers that. We go out to eat probably more than we should, but usually its only when I come home for a weekend or they come out here. We have never really recovered from the month long garnishment in the beginning, then the additional withholding after I started getting paid again, on top of the monies paid to the "tax expert" that I thought was helping me. The brunt of the amount is from 2003-2006, 108k. the returns for those years were filed in april 2013.

Well, that rules out bankruptcy. Because the returns were filed in 2013 the tax debt is considered as dated from 2013. Therefore the debt is not old enough to be discharged in bankruptcy.

 

[Ohiogal]

There is probably some truth in that, but it is not like we live lavishly. I earn 80k/ yr and I work looong hours for that. We have 3 teenagers at home, one is out of school and works but does not pay room and board. The other two are highschool age. We have one family car (in her name) that still has about 6k left on the note. I drive a company truck. Our rent is 1200 mo and we have maybe 2k in credit card debt (in her name as well) I am currently working out of town and maintain an apartment here but I recieve subsistance that just about covers that. We go out to eat probably more than we should, but usually its only when I come home for a weekend or they come out here. We have never really recovered from the month long garnishment in the beginning, then the additional withholding after I started getting paid again, on top of the monies paid to the "tax expert" that I thought was helping me. The brunt of the amount is from 2003-2006, 108k. the returns for those years were filed in april 2013.

A) your working child needs to be pay room and board.
B) Your wife needs to get a job -- you didn't state that she was working and quite frankly this is her issue as well.
C) You need to cut out eating out and start budgeting.
D) Cut out premium cable channels (HBO, Encore, Showtime).
E) Cut cell phone extras if possible without being penalized.
F) Do not use air conditioning daily but rather open the windows and doors.
G) Learn to shop at Aldi's/Save-A-Lot or using coupons.
H) Start freecycling.
I) Quit buying name brand clothes and other stuff.

You make over 6k a month. You should not have to spend that much. Especially if you get a subsistance for the apartment which doesn't enter into your income. Where is that money going? Apparently you are living lavishly.

 

[Zigner]

A) your working child needs to be pay room and board.
B) Your wife needs to get a job -- you didn't state that she was working and quite frankly this is her issue as well.
C) You need to cut out eating out and start budgeting.
D) Cut out premium cable channels (HBO, Encore, Showtime).
E) Cut cell phone extras if possible without being penalized.
F) Do not use air conditioning daily but rather open the windows and doors.
G) Learn to shop at Aldi's/Save-A-Lot or using coupons.
H) Start freecycling.
I) Quit buying name brand clothes and other stuff.

You make over 6k a month. You should not have to spend that much. Especially if you get a subsistance for the apartment which doesn't enter into your income. Where is that money going? Apparently you are living lavishly.

I agree. With that level of income and a low amount of rent, along with very little in the way of debt, the OP should be able to make higher payments. I don't think that $2,000 per month is unreasonable, all things considered.

 

[Robart]

A) your working child needs to be pay room and board.
B) Your wife needs to get a job -- you didn't state that she was working and quite frankly this is her issue as well.
C) You need to cut out eating out and start budgeting.
D) Cut out premium cable channels (HBO, Encore, Showtime).
E) Cut cell phone extras if possible without being penalized.
F) Do not use air conditioning daily but rather open the windows and doors.
G) Learn to shop at Aldi's/Save-A-Lot or using coupons.
H) Start freecycling.
I) Quit buying name brand clothes and other stuff.

You make over 6k a month. You should not have to spend that much. Especially if you get a subsistance for the apartment which doesn't enter into your income. Where is that money going? Apparently you are living lavishly.

The girlfriend does work, but it's only about 30k/yr, I agree about the adult son but am really crossing my fingers that he moves out, can cut out to eating like I said, no time for TV, but yeah I guess the irs can have that 30 bucks, I doubt the cell phones can go in this day and age. Windows may work up north but not in Texas, but for the sake of argument we can give them all of my electricity money, 350 in Texas and 100 in Arkansas , we aren't extreme couponers but do use coupons sometimes, aldi, Walmart, saves lot and free cycle? I'll leave that for the poor people. If it comes to me having to live like the poor I'm going to work like the poor . I didn't go to college but it seems that minimum wage would equal minimum recovery. All good ideas though thanks!

So, no bankruptcy for how much longer? Next year? Do you think they will reinstate me on the prior installment? Any way to persuade them?

 

[Zigner]

The girlfriend does work, but it's only about 30k/yr, I agree about the adult son but am really crossing my fingers that he moves out, can cut out to eating like I said, no time for TV, but yeah I guess the irs can have that 30 bucks, I doubt the cell phones can go in this day and age. Windows may work up north but not in Texas, but for the sake of argument we can give them all of my electricity money, 350 in Texas and 100 in Arkansas , we aren't extreme couponers but do use coupons sometimes, aldi, Walmart, saves lot and free cycle? I'll leave that for the poor people. If it comes to me having to live like the poor I'm going to work like the poor . I didn't go to college but it seems that minimum wage would equal minimum recovery. All good ideas though thanks!

So, no bankruptcy for how much longer? Next year? Do you think they will reinstate me on the prior installment? Any way to persuade them?

Your true colors are shining through.

You snub your nose at people who actually try to save money.

 

[Zigner]

Your household brings in over $100k per year.

I hope the IRS gets ya for every penny.

 

[Robart]

Your true colors are shining through.

You snub your nose at people who actually try to save money.

I am not snubbing my nose at anyone. I am saying that I work an extremely dangerous, stressful, high intensity job, so that my family isn't poor, and if we are going to be poor, I am not going to put in that risk,effort and time away from my family, I will just be poor like the rest of the poor people.

 

[Zigner]

I am not snubbing my nose at anyone. I am saying that I work an extremely dangerous, stressful, high intensity job, so that my family isn't poor, and if we are going to be poor, I am not going to put in that risk,effort and time away from my family, I will just be poor like the rest of the poor people.

Your attitude sucks. Really.

 

[LdiJ]

Your attitude sucks. Really.

It really does...on top of that the people that scoff at Aldi's don't realize that you can find all kinds of good stuff there that nobody else has. For example, I have a hard time finding decent pesto sauce at the high end grocery stores here, but I can nearly always get it at Aldi's.

 

[Robart]

Your attitude sucks. Really.

I apologize if I come across that way.

 

[Robart]

It really does...on top of that the people that scoff at Aldi's don't realize that you can find all kinds of good stuff there that nobody else has. For example, I have a hard time finding decent pesto sauce at the high end grocery stores here, but I can nearly always get it at Aldi's.

We'll for what it's worth the gf loves Aldis , and she shops there while I'm gone. I disapprove because I work my ass off so that we can go to albertsons ( just my preference) right now we budget 200 for her and the kids and 100 wk for me here, thats with her shopping at aldi. She gets an addl 100 for fuel and tolls.

Also, I am content with paying the extra 560 mo for the rest of my life to the irs. I had not considered bk until today, I didn't realize that was or could be an option in the future. I'm just really stressing that they are going to garnish again, because like I said, we haven't fully recovered from the month they did in early 2013.