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CA State Board of Equalization

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zyzzx1952

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
This may be a bit wordy but I'm hoping to answer all possible questions. This will also mention another state, but the question is CA.

In 2006, my sister (hereafter referred to as MS) and her long-time companion (hereafter referred to as CM) separated very bitterly.

They each had a personal vehicle. MS gave her 2003 Toyota to the CM to use as a trade in for a newer vehicle for the CM. MS went to the dealership and signed off on the Toyota. The CM signed over the CM's older van to MS. NO MONEY WAS EXCHANGED. It was a trade and both came away with something to drive.

MS immediately moved to Idaho. There she registered the van and turned in the paperwork stating that the van had been a gift b/c of no money exchanged.

Yeah, I know many do that illegally, but MS is afraid of her own shadow and everything HAS to be on the up and up.

MS contacted her few creditors, but did not put in change of address in CA for ID b/c she had so few bills and HAD contacted them.

Apparently the CA State Board Of Equalization began sending letters to MS to the address where the ex still lives. The ex never fwded them.

Two weeks ago MS did finally receive a letter stating she owed CA SBoE over $1000 tax on 'the purchase' of the van she came out with in the trade.

She contacted the SBoE and was told that the ex had signed a paper stating that MS had given her $10,000 for the van. She was also told that numerous letters had been sent to MS at the old address with regard to working out something financially. My sister told the woman she had not gotten them.

The woman said that was not of concern to her, but collecting the $1000+ was. The CA BoE also said that the ex signed whatever paper saying it was true, so as not to commit perjury. Sorry i have worded that wrong, I suppose.

MS contacted her attorney in CA who is handling a case against the ex that is going to Supreme Court. He told her to come up with anything she can to disprove this 'sale' of $10,000. MS has provided bank statements back to 2006 and all records she got from DMV.

No one is requesting the ex to prove a paper trail for this large amount of money b/c, as the woman at CA SBoE said the ex signed a paper ....

First of all, when mail comes to a place belonging to someone else, it is against the law to tamper/throw away that mail, I think.

Secondly, have people or entities come to a point where just b/c someone signs a paper attesting to the truth they believe that ALL people tell the truth?!?

If this ex had been so truthful, there would not be a case against her in CA with MS having all paperwork needed!

In case you ask, the case stems from the ex signing a promissory note and both MS and the ex taking it to a notary to be witnessed and stamped saying that the ex agrees to owing MS a very large sum of money and agreeing to pay it back.

And I'm having a big problem understanding how the ex can contest that, the courts not recognize the notarized agreement to the point where it has to go to a higher court.

SO, My question is since there was no transfer of $10,000, why would there be no request of proof from the ex? MS's attorney, who has also investigated this, basically said to pay it b/c what they are working on against the ex is more important.

MS is one of the large number trying to find a job! At this point, for the past almost year, she has been lucky enough to barely cover her house payment!

Is there any way to put a stall on this to give, if she has to pay it, MS time to come up with the money?

Doesn't anyone realize that if the ex will ignore a signed agreement, that the ex might lie about many other things!??
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
The VALUE of the vehicle was $10,000.00. Since they were not married (or otherwise related), then the VALUE of the vehicle needs to be reported upon transfer...and tax paid.

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
This may be a bit wordy but I'm hoping to answer all possible questions. This will also mention another state, but the question is CA.

In 2006, my sister (hereafter referred to as MS) and her long-time companion (hereafter referred to as CM) separated very bitterly.

They each had a personal vehicle. MS gave her 2003 Toyota to the CM to use as a trade in for a newer vehicle for the CM. MS went to the dealership and signed off on the Toyota. The CM signed over the CM's older van to MS. NO MONEY WAS EXCHANGED. It was a trade and both came away with something to drive.

MS immediately moved to Idaho. There she registered the van and turned in the paperwork stating that the van had been a gift b/c of no money exchanged.

Yeah, I know many do that illegally, but MS is afraid of her own shadow and everything HAS to be on the up and up.

MS contacted her few creditors, but did not put in change of address in CA for ID b/c she had so few bills and HAD contacted them.

Apparently the CA State Board Of Equalization began sending letters to MS to the address where the ex still lives. The ex never fwded them.

Two weeks ago MS did finally receive a letter stating she owed CA SBoE over $1000 tax on 'the purchase' of the van she came out with in the trade.

She contacted the SBoE and was told that the ex had signed a paper stating that MS had given her $10,000 for the van. She was also told that numerous letters had been sent to MS at the old address with regard to working out something financially. My sister told the woman she had not gotten them.

The woman said that was not of concern to her, but collecting the $1000+ was. The CA BoE also said that the ex signed whatever paper saying it was true, so as not to commit perjury. Sorry i have worded that wrong, I suppose.

MS contacted her attorney in CA who is handling a case against the ex that is going to Supreme Court. He told her to come up with anything she can to disprove this 'sale' of $10,000. MS has provided bank statements back to 2006 and all records she got from DMV.

No one is requesting the ex to prove a paper trail for this large amount of money b/c, as the woman at CA SBoE said the ex signed a paper ....

First of all, when mail comes to a place belonging to someone else, it is against the law to tamper/throw away that mail, I think.

Secondly, have people or entities come to a point where just b/c someone signs a paper attesting to the truth they believe that ALL people tell the truth?!?

If this ex had been so truthful, there would not be a case against her in CA with MS having all paperwork needed!

In case you ask, the case stems from the ex signing a promissory note and both MS and the ex taking it to a notary to be witnessed and stamped saying that the ex agrees to owing MS a very large sum of money and agreeing to pay it back.

And I'm having a big problem understanding how the ex can contest that, the courts not recognize the notarized agreement to the point where it has to go to a higher court.

SO, My question is since there was no transfer of $10,000, why would there be no request of proof from the ex? MS's attorney, who has also investigated this, basically said to pay it b/c what they are working on against the ex is more important.

MS is one of the large number trying to find a job! At this point, for the past almost year, she has been lucky enough to barely cover her house payment!

Is there any way to put a stall on this to give, if she has to pay it, MS time to come up with the money?

Doesn't anyone realize that if the ex will ignore a signed agreement, that the ex might lie about many other things!??
 

davew128

Senior Member
Doesn't anyone realize that if the ex will ignore a signed agreement, that the ex might lie about many other things!??
Wholly irrelevant to the issue at hand. It was a change of ownership (gift) between two unrelated parties, and you didn't your state your sister and her partner (a she) were RDP. Zigner is right on the money.
 

zyzzx1952

Junior Member
Dumb question ...

... but what is RDP?
I appreciate the responses. The value of the vehicle then taken into consideration, wouldn't MS's ex then, also, have to claim a value of the Toyota traded to her for the van? Or does trading sis's Toyota in on another vehicle negate that? (And yes, they are both women) I'll tell my sister to NEVER again think she is doing something nice and trade DOWN vehicles, lol, sort of.
I do get what you're saying though. I still think her ex should have to prove there was a (non existent) $10,000 paid.
 

davew128

Senior Member
... but what is RDP?
Domestic partners, civil unions.
The value of the vehicle then taken into consideration, wouldn't MS's ex then, also, have to claim a value of the Toyota traded to her for the van? Or does trading sis's Toyota in on another vehicle negate that? (And yes, they are both women) I'll tell my sister to NEVER again think she is doing something nice and trade DOWN vehicles, lol, sort of.
I don't know, what do IDAHO'S laws say on the matter?


I do get what you're saying though. I still think her ex should have to prove there was a (non existent) $10,000 paid.
No you DON'T get it, because if you did, you wouldn't bring it up, because whether or not $10k was paid IS IRRELEVANT. IT ALWAYS WAS.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I think I might disagree with some of the other answers here. They traded cars so each ended up with the same value that they had originally. (I am assuming)

Therefore, either nothing exchanged hands value wise, so neither owes tax, or they BOTH were responsible for similar amounts of tax. What I don't understand (possibly because I am not particularly familiar with CA law) is why CA thinks that they are due tax, when MS never registered the vehicle in CA.
 

zyzzx1952

Junior Member
davew128: Thanks for the definition. Sorry to have seemed so uneducated with my 'don't get it statement'. Just you're run of the mill physics teacher. :(
The Idaho law question is interesting. Perhaps I should ask my same questions directed toward Idaho and see what they have to say.

LdiJ: Thank you for your reply.
What I don't understand (possibly because I am not particularly familiar with CA law) is why CA thinks that they are due tax, when MS never registered the vehicle in CA.
Well stated, lol. You summed it up with a heck of lot fewer words than I was able to do. I will re-post, in part, the question to Idaho law and see what the answer to that might be.

I would like to thank the three of you for your input.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I think I might disagree with some of the other answers here. They traded cars so each ended up with the same value that they had originally. (I am assuming)

Therefore, either nothing exchanged hands value wise, so neither owes tax, or they BOTH were responsible for similar amounts of tax. What I don't understand (possibly because I am not particularly familiar with CA law) is why CA thinks that they are due tax, when MS never registered the vehicle in CA.
Because the transfer of a California-registered vehicle occurred in California and the vehicle was operated in California after the transfer occurred.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Because the transfer of a California-registered vehicle occurred in California and the vehicle was operated in California after the transfer occurred.
So if someone lives in AZ, but buys a car while they are vacationing in CA, CA will expect to be paid tax on the car?..because they had to drive it out of CA to get it home?
 

davew128

Senior Member
So if someone lives in AZ, but buys a car while they are vacationing in CA, CA will expect to be paid tax on the car?..because they had to drive it out of CA to get it home?
With a 3-5% difference in sales tax rates, trust me such a scenario does not happen. Regarding your other question, you're confusing a potential tax free exchange (if they were business vehicles) for income tax purposes with a sales tax transaction. Swapping vehicles is a sales taxable transaction when not involving related parties. The taxable amount for each party would presumably be the lowest valued vehicle or any stated amount (such as our wonderful ex wrote).
 

zyzzx1952

Junior Member
Because the transfer of a California-registered vehicle occurred in California and the vehicle was operated in California after the transfer occurred.
No, the day the keys were handed to my sister was the day she left for Idaho. Knowing she would have to register it in Idaho, choosing to live there, she did all the paperwork in Idaho.
 

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