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Sub-contractor Provided SS# of deceased person for 1099-Misc

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Pacer41

Member
Ohio

I'm self-employed and in 2013 I paid nearly $2000 for services from a sub-contractor in California. I discontinued the use of her services and when I recently contacted her for her SS#, she ignored my request. I paid an agency to provide me with her SS#, verifying that it was for the purpose of a 1099-Misc. They provided it to me and several days later she responded to my initial request with a SS# that had the prefix of being issued from Texas. This person is from Sweden and has only lived in California since coming here to be an au pair 15 years ago. I contacted the P.I. firm to make sure they had provided me with the correct SS# and gave them the one she had emailed to me. They immediately pulled that SS# up and said it was the number from a deceased woman (name withheld) who was born in 1900. I'm fairly certain my sub-contractor is not 113 years old. What should I do?
 


sandyclaus

Senior Member
Ohio

I'm self-employed and in 2013 I paid nearly $2000 for services from a sub-contractor in California. I discontinued the use of her services and when I recently contacted her for her SS#, she ignored my request. I paid an agency to provide me with her SS#, verifying that it was for the purpose of a 1099-Misc. They provided it to me and several days later she responded to my initial request with a SS# that had the prefix of being issued from Texas. This person is from Sweden and has only lived in California since coming here to be an au pair 15 years ago. I contacted the P.I. firm to make sure they had provided me with the correct SS# and gave them the one she had emailed to me. They immediately pulled that SS# up and said it was the number from a deceased woman (name withheld) who was born in 1900. I'm fairly certain my sub-contractor is not 113 years old. What should I do?
Report the identity theft to the police and to the Social Security Administration.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Ohio

I'm self-employed and in 2013 I paid nearly $2000 for services from a sub-contractor in California. I discontinued the use of her services and when I recently contacted her for her SS#, she ignored my request. I paid an agency to provide me with her SS#, verifying that it was for the purpose of a 1099-Misc. They provided it to me and several days later she responded to my initial request with a SS# that had the prefix of being issued from Texas. This person is from Sweden and has only lived in California since coming here to be an au pair 15 years ago. I contacted the P.I. firm to make sure they had provided me with the correct SS# and gave them the one she had emailed to me. They immediately pulled that SS# up and said it was the number from a deceased woman (name withheld) who was born in 1900. I'm fairly certain my sub-contractor is not 113 years old. What should I do?
Did the agency provide you with her correct number? If so, use that number on her 1099.
 

davew128

Senior Member
No, what you should do is accept the number given. If its incorrect, then so be it, but if she really is a contractor then YOUR duty was to get a W-9 signed by the contractor with the SSN. In fact you were supposed to get it done when you hired her services. I would be reluctant to blindly rely on the information from the PI. What you CAN do is find someone authorized to use IRS E-services to match the SSN and name and verify that they do or do not match. Calling this identity theft is only true if you have verifiable proof and you only have suspicion.
 

davew128

Senior Member
How do you know the one the agency provided is correct for that person?
A fair question but most credentialed tax preparers and issuers of informational IRS forms have access to an online IRS tool which will verify if a social security number matches the name associated with it. Its not available to the general public and can't be used to search an SSN. It merely verifies that the SSN and name match.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
A fair question but most credentialed tax preparers and issuers of informational IRS forms have access to an online IRS tool which will verify if a social security number matches the name associated with it. Its not available to the general public and can't be used to search an SSN. It merely verifies that the SSN and name match.
Right. So how does one know that the name given to them by an identity thief is the correct name?
 

davew128

Senior Member
Right. So how does one know that the name given to them by an identity thief is the correct name?
Doesn't matter. The duty is verify the correct SSN, not to perform an FBI level background check. If reasonable documents have been provided regarding name and SSN (or relied on a background that did the same) the OP's obligation is complete.

I had this discussion once with someone from ICE on this exact topic. It's not that the info is 100% correct, its that you complied with reasonable verification requirements and documented the efforts.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Doesn't matter. The duty is verify the correct SSN, not to perform an FBI level background check. If reasonable documents have been provided regarding name and SSN (or relied on a background that did the same) the OP's obligation is complete.

I had this discussion once with someone from ICE on this exact topic. It's not that the info is 100% correct, its that you complied with reasonable verification requirements and documented the efforts.
I am not arguing that with you.

The OP stated that the agency provided the correct number. I asked the OP how he could be sure the agency provided the correct number for this person, with the intention of making the OP realize that, when dealing with a dishonest person, one cannot trust anything they are told.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
Right. So how does one know that the name given to them by an identity thief is the correct name?
Many time, one giving money gives a check. I suspect to cash said check, someone asked for ID somewhere along the line. But:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p2108a.pdf
SEC. 14.TIN MATCHING FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ’S)
1. What is a TIN?
The term “TIN” is defined as the identifying number assigned to a person under Internal Revenue Code,
Section 6109. Specifically, a TIN may be a Social Security Number (SSN), Employer Identification Number
(EIN), Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), or Adoption Taxpayer Identification Number
8
(ATIN). A valid Social Security Number may only be issued by the Social Security Administration. An EIN,
ITIN or, ATIN may only be obtained through the Internal Revenue Service.
2. What are the requirements for providing a payee TIN to the IRS?
Internal Revenue Code (IRC) Section 6109(a) (1) provides that any payer required to file an information
return must include the payee’s correct TIN. IRC 6109(a) (2) requires the payee to furnish their correct
TIN to the payer. IRC Section 6109(a) (3) requires a payer to request a payee’s TIN and include it in any
returns filed with IRS. IRC Section 3406(a)(1)(A) provides that reportable payments are subject to backup
withholding if the payee does not provide a correct TIN to the payer. The payer is required to withhold
28% of a reportable payment if the TIN is not provided at the time of the payment. IRS sends a CP2100
or CP2100A, “Notice of Possible Payee TIN Discrepancy”, to payers if the TIN/name combination on the
information return does not match IRS tax records. Once a payer receives a “Notice of Possible Payee
TIN Discrepancy”, for a payee, the payer is required to track whether or not another is received within 3
years. If another “Notice of Possible Payee TIN Discrepancy”, for that payee is received, the second notice
requires the payer to backup withhold on any proceeds disbursed to the payee until IRS gives permission
to stop, even if a Form W-9 is provided by a payee. Additional information regarding requirements to
provide a payee TIN and, backup withholding guidelines, may be found in IRS Publication 1281 “Backup
Withholding for Missing and Incorrect TINs – Including Instructions for Magnetic Tape and CD/DVD
Formats ”.
3. What is a Form W-9?
Form W-9, “Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification”, certifies the payee’s name
and TIN, that the payee is not subject to backup withholding, and they are a U.S. person, including a U.S.
resident alien.
4. What is the penalty for a payer who furnishes an incorrect name/TIN to IRS?
IRC Section 6721 provides a payer may be subject to a penalty for failure to file a complete and accurate
information return, including a failure to include the correct payee TIN. The penalty is $50 per return,
with a maximum penalty of $250,000 per year ($100,000 for small businesses). The penalty for intentional
disregard is $100 per return, with no maximum penalty.
5. How does IRS differentiate between an ‘invalid’ and a ‘missing’ TIN?
A missing TIN is either completely missing, or contains invalid characters such as alphas or hyphens. An
invalid TIN is one that doesn’t match IRS records for that name/TIN combination. A TIN not currently
issued cannot be found in either IRS or SSA records.
6. Who will be able to use the TIN Matching Program and how will it help me to reduce errors on my payee
TINs?
Payers or their authorized agents, who submit Forms 1099-INT, DIV, PATR, OID, MISC and/or B* to
IRS may be eligible to enroll in the e-Services TIN Matching program. TIN Matching assists the payer in
determining if the payee TIN/name combination contained on their Form W-9, matches the TIN/name
combination contained in IRS tax filing records.
NOTE: The TIN Matching program currently cannot enroll payers who do not submit at least one of these
six forms, nor employers submitting Forms W-2, to use the TIN Matching system. Payers may only perform
TIN Matching for the TIN/Name combinations for income subject to backup withholding and reported on
Forms 1099-B, DIV, INT, MISC, OID and/or PATR.
7. What is an authorized agent?
An individual or company contracted to transmit information returns to the IRS on behalf of the payer
firm. This would include third party service providers, transmitters, service bureaus, etc. An authorized
agent must perform TIN Matching research under the account established by the payer firm through
eServices.

[How to sign up stuff remove to fit character limit.]

23. What should I do to secure an accurate TIN from my Payee?
It would be useful to refer to the Instructions for Form SS-4, lines 1 and 2, (http://www.irs.gov/pub/
irs-pdf/iss4.pdf) to determine what name may have been submitted to the IRS. Ultimately, the name
submitted for TIN Matching should be the legal name from line 1 or the trade name from line 2 if a
return using this name has already been filed and accepted. The legal name of the entity will create the
best potential to match because IRS maintains prior name controls for an EIN even after a name change
has been made.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Ok, let me be blunt.

My point is that an identity thief can just as easily commandeer a name.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
Ok, let me be blunt.

My point is that an identity thief can just as easily commandeer a name.
So? Why would I care? The law is not going to require me to get fingerprints and run them before paying them money. If said clever thief fooled me, the IRS will send me a mismatch or error letter and the next time I pay the guy I might have to withhold.
IRC Section 6109(a) (3) requires a payer to request a payee’s TIN and include it in any
returns filed with IRS. IRC Section 3406(a)(1)(A) provides that reportable payments are subject to backup
withholding if the payee does not provide a correct TIN to the payer. The payer is required to withhold
28% of a reportable payment if the TIN is not provided at the time of the payment. IRS sends a CP2100
or CP2100A, “Notice of Possible Payee TIN Discrepancy”, to payers if the TIN/name combination on the
information return does not match IRS tax records. Once a payer receives a “Notice of Possible Payee
TIN Discrepancy”, for a payee, the payer is required to track whether or not another is received within 3
years. If another “Notice of Possible Payee TIN Discrepancy”, for that payee is received, the second notice
requires the payer to backup withhold on any proceeds disbursed to the payee until IRS gives permission
to stop, even if a Form W-9 is provided by a payee.
The only reason I'm issuing the 1099 is so I can deduct the expense. If a thief does work for me and uses a false name and a false social security number and makes a false identification that will fool the bank/liquor store to cash the check I give him all as a clever scheme to commit multiple felonies to not pay taxes, good for him!

Do you know how to make a million dollars and never pay taxes?
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77imono.phtml
 
Last edited:

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
The OP stated that the agency provided the correct number. I was simply pointing out that it may not actually be the correct number for that particular human being.
 

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