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Unable to close onnew house due to 20 year old tax debt.

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busaman

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? OH

In 1992, my wife and I filed bankruptcy on a large sum of debt owed to the federal and state for unpaid taxes.

Back on 2/5/07, we applied for a mortgage on a new home and were approved. The same day we spoke with our loan officer about finalizing everything, he had asked us about liens against us for the same amounts of money that were involved in that 1992 bankruptcy. We explained to him there should be no liens as the debts were taken care of with the bankruptcy. He said, "this shouldn't be a problem then." Shortly after (1 week), we were called by the title company and scheduled the closing date for April 9th, 2007. We put our notice in to our apartment complex, purchased furniture from a family member moving out of state, a garage door opener, landscaping materials, and alot of other items we would need for a brand new home.

On April 6th, 3 days before closing, we received a call from our loan officer stating that they weren't going to be able to finance us due to the liens on our credit report. We again explained to him that those were taken care of through the bankruptcy. They requested we send them the court documents showing the years in question and the $ amounts of each. We did. On the day of the closing, they called and said this information wasn't enough, and they would need releases from the IRS in order to finalize the loan. I spent 6 hours playing phone-tag with the IRS, and finally received a fax of the releases for all the years in question. I forwarded this information to the mortgage company on April 10th. Again, this wasn't good enough for the under-writers. Now they needed releases for each of the state tax liens showing in pubic record. I spent another 4 hours on the phone with the state of Ohio tax department, only to find out they had sold my supposed debt to an attorney's office for collection. Keep in mind, these “debts” are from 1985, 86, 88, and 89 and we have never received any notification of their attempt to collect this debt. Also, we have received state refund checks every year since the bankruptcy. You would think they would keep that money if we genuinely owed it right? To add fuel to the fire, they have refused to release the liens unless I agree to pay them off.

As I’m sure you’ve guessed, here it is now 4 days before we must be out of our apartment, and we have no resolution. We also have no place to go.

My questions are:
1.) Can we be held responsible to pay for these 20-year old taxes even though they were discharged on the bankruptcy?
2.) Is there a statute of limitations on the state attempting to collect the supposed debt? If so, has it passed?
3.) Is there any legal recourse against the mortgage company for misleading us into our current situation? We were up front with them in the very beginning, but they wait until after loan documents have already been signed and 3 days before closing to ask documentation.
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
Your problem is with Ohio, and its probably going to take a tax attorney in Ohio to straighten it out.

However, in the meantime, you really need to be moving up the chain of command with the Ohio department of revenue/taxation.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
Your problem is with Ohio, and its probably going to take a tax attorney in Ohio to straighten it out.

However, in the meantime, you really need to be moving up the chain of command with the Ohio department of revenue/taxation.
Sometimes the title company will insure over tax liens that were legally discharged in a bankrupcy, yet not released of record. Talk to the examiner, provide them a copy of the list of creditors and final discharge papers. Ask your LO if they will close if the title company will give them affirmative coverage.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
Can tax liens be discharged in bankruptcy?
Nope, nor can a CS arrearage that was not assigned to a private collection agency.

However, any liens NOT released that WERE discharged in a BK can potentially be insured over IF the final discharge shows that debt was released.
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
Nope, nor can a CS arrearage that was not assigned to a private collection agency.

However, any liens NOT released that WERE discharged in a BK can potentially be insured over IF the final discharge shows that debt was released.
Actually, its not correct that tax liens can't be discharged in a bankruptcy. Current tax debt/liens cannot be discharged, but older debt can.
 

moburkes

Senior Member
Actually, its not correct that tax liens can't be discharged in a bankruptcy. Current tax debt/liens cannot be discharged, but older debt can.
There are just a few stipulations, right? Like, having actually filed the returns, that they are 3 years old or older, and one other stipulation, right? Or, is that just for federal?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
There are just a few stipulations, right? Like, having actually filed the returns, that they are 3 years old or older, and one other stipulation, right? Or, is that just for federal?
That's federal...state laws can vary somewhat but they are all fairly similar.
 

busaman

Junior Member
Actually, its not correct that tax liens can't be discharged in a bankruptcy. Current tax debt/liens cannot be discharged, but older debt can.
I believe from what I've read, the statue changed in 2003. Correct?
 

busaman

Junior Member
Sometimes the title company will insure over tax liens that were legally discharged in a bankrupcy, yet not released of record. Talk to the examiner, provide them a copy of the list of creditors and final discharge papers. Ask your LO if they will close if the title company will give them affirmative coverage.
Called the title agency and they said they could not insure the lender for these un-recorded liens.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
Called the title agency and they said they could not insure the lender for these un-recorded liens.
I did not suggest having un-recorded liens insured over.

I said that IF these matters were DISCHARGED in a bankrupcy and IF they were included in the list of creditors and you provided a final discharge and list of creditors they may insure over them.

Did you provide them documentation that these matters WERE discharged in the bankcrupcy?
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
I did not suggest having un-recorded liens insured over.

I said that IF these matters were DISCHARGED in a bankrupcy and IF they were included in the list of creditors and you provided a final discharge and list of creditors they may insure over them.

Did you provide them documentation that these matters WERE discharged in the bankcrupcy?
Some of those papers people get from the bankruptcy courts are maddeningly vague!
 

busaman

Junior Member
I did not suggest having un-recorded liens insured over.

I said that IF these matters were DISCHARGED in a bankrupcy and IF they were included in the list of creditors and you provided a final discharge and list of creditors they may insure over them.

Did you provide them documentation that these matters WERE discharged in the bankcrupcy?
We provided the mortgage company with the original court documents showing the federal and state taxes on the list of creditors. I also told the representative at the title agency, and neither were satisfied with those documents. They want the liens released from the State of Ohio before proceeding.
 

busaman

Junior Member
Some of those papers people get from the bankruptcy courts are maddeningly vague!
Our paperwork specifically lists each creditor including the state and federal tax amounts, but it still doesn't satisfy the mortgage company or title agency. The state tax department has forwarded the debt to an attorney's office (Kevin Kurgis, the "Ambulance Chaser") for collection, and now all of a sudden they've been calling repeatedly. We've never received any correspondence since the bankruptcy year ago regarding these liens, so why now that we're trying to purchase this home are they finally acknowledging it exists in their records?
 

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