Speedy Trial in Speeding case ?

[LMDVA]

2/12/20 I was (on the ticket) "arrested" for speeding 18 miles over the speed limit. I was given a court date of 3/24. It was changed to 6/9 at 0930 due to COVID. I showed up and was told it got changed to 9/8/20. I asked what formal notice I would be given ? They said mail. AND I did get a notification in the NEXT days mail 6/10 (posted marked 6/9 6pm).
I am supposed to show up Tuesday at 930. For a variety of reasons I am pleading not guilty- one of which is that only sign stating the speed limit was 25mph said "when light flashing" which it was not. In any case
QUESTION- does a speedy trial dismissal request apply here (VA) ?
thanks for any help

 

[Taxing Matters]

QUESTION- does a speedy trial dismissal request apply here (VA) ?
thanks for any help

As you are not in custody, the speedy trial rule that applies here is the Virginia statutory rule for misdemeanors and traffic offenses, which is the following paragraph from Virginia Code section 19.2-243:

Where a case is before a circuit court on appeal from a conviction of a misdemeanor or traffic infraction in a district court, the accused shall be forever discharged from prosecution for such offense if the trial de novo in the circuit court is not commenced (i) within five months from the date of the conviction if the accused has been held continuously in custody or (ii) within nine months of the date of the conviction if the accused has been recognized for his appearance in the circuit court to answer for such offense.​

As the statute only addresses the de novo appeal of the traffic conviction to circuit court and does not contain a speedy trial rule for the initial trial on the traffic offense in district court there is no set speedy trial rule for your trial in district court. Even if the above rule did apply to district court, since you are not in custody the state would have 9 months, and your trial is within 9 months. And finally, the statute sets out a number of things that will extend the speedy trial rules, which include time that the trial cannot be held by reason of "a natural disaster, civil disorder, or act of God". I think the courts would have no trouble saying court closures due to the covid pandemic counts a delay due to an act of God.

In short, I'm not seeing a good speedy trial defense for you on this one.

 

[LMDVA]

Thank you for your insight . I appreciate it ! It makes sense.

My brother (a corporate attorney in another state) says that nobody ever wins a speeding ticket defense.
I hope that is not true.
But- Is the best approach then - :guilty with an explanation " - flashing light on 25 mph sign not on ( note: speed sign = 25mph when light flashing") ?.

 

[Zigner]

My brother (a corporate attorney in another state) says that nobody ever wins a speeding ticket defense.

I am directly aware of multiple speeding tickets that were beat in court in my state, so your brother's absolute "never" is false.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Thank you for your insight . I appreciate it ! It makes sense.

My brother (a corporate attorney in another state) says that nobody ever wins a speeding ticket defense.

People do win them in every state. But most who do it by themselves don't win even if they might have had a good defense to use because they simply don't know what makes a good defense and how to present their case.

But- Is the best approach then - :guilty with an explanation " - flashing light on 25 mph sign not on ( note: speed sign = 25mph when light flashing") ?

That I can't tell you. I don't know all the facts and evidence in your case, nor do I know the practices of the local judges and prosecutors. A local traffic attorney would be your best source for that info.

 

[FlyingRon]

General District Court is an informal affair and you risk little more than your time to show up there. It's rare that the officer doesn't make it because your court date is scheduled on the day he's got other things on the docket. The first question is what defense do you have? Most people don't win because they were guilty of the offense. Now, as the lawyer down the road here says, "Just because you did it, doesn't mean you're guilty," but it's hard to poke holes in the case of an officer who has probably brought hundreds of such cases. Still you can try.

Two interesting points about GDC. First, if you aren't represented by counsel, the commonwealth will not be either. The officer will make his statement. You're free to ask him questions in cross-examination (that means asking questions, NOT arguing with him). You're free to make your own testimony or bring in others (or present your own evidence).

The judges in GDC might give you some amount of leniency. I've gotten the case deferred in favor of VADIP (Virginia's traffic school, one morning at the local community college) or had them just outright waive the fine (but not the costs). It helps if you're already +5 (go to the DMV online site and pull your record).

Of course, if you lose at the GDC, you get a trial de novo option (a "do over") in the circuit court. Of course, the circuit court is a bit more formal, and I'd seriously recommend an attorney if you are going to appear there.

Also, if this is more than just a speeding ticket (i.e., it was written as reckless driving), you're facing jail time (except in certain speed trap jurisdictions that will waive it). I'd absolutely recommend consulting an attorney.

 

[LMDVA]

General District Court is an informal affair and you risk little more than your time to show up there. It's rare that the officer doesn't make it because your court date is scheduled on the day he's got other things on the docket. The first question is what defense do you have? Most people don't win because they were guilty of the offense. Now, as the lawyer down the road here says, "Just because you did it, doesn't mean you're guilty," but it's hard to poke holes in the case of an officer who has probably brought hundreds of such cases. Still you can try.
Interesting thank you
Two interesting points about GDC. First, if you aren't represented by counsel, the commonwealth will not be either. The officer will make his statement. You're free to ask him questions in cross-examination (that means asking questions, NOT arguing with him). You're free to make your own testimony or bring in others (or present your own evidence).

The judges in GDC might give you some amount of leniency. I've gotten the case deferred in favor of VADIP (Virginia's traffic school, one morning at the local community college) or had them just outright waive the fine (but not the costs). It helps if you're already +5 (go to the DMV online site and pull your record).

Of course, if you lose at the GDC, you get a trial de novo option (a "do over") in the circuit court. Of course, the circuit court is a bit more formal, and I'd seriously recommend an attorney if you are going to appear there.

Also, if this is more than just a speeding ticket (i.e., it was written as reckless driving), you're facing jail time (except in certain speed trap jurisdictions that will waive it). I'd absolutely recommend consulting an attorney.

Thank you for asking this- I looked and it is simply a violation speeding ticket. I have a very clean driving ecord and would like to keep it that way. But importantly I was shocked to be pulled over and still dont see how I was speeding in that area.

 

[LMDVA]

As you are not in custody, the speedy trial rule that applies here is the Virginia statutory rule for misdemeanors and traffic offenses, which is the following paragraph from Virginia Code section 19.2-243:

Where a case is before a circuit court on appeal from a conviction of a misdemeanor or traffic infraction in a district court, the accused shall be forever discharged from prosecution for such offense if the trial de novo in the circuit court is not commenced (i) within five months from the date of the conviction if the accused has been held continuously in custody or (ii) within nine months of the date of the conviction if the accused has been recognized for his appearance in the circuit court to answer for such offense.​

As the statute only addresses the de novo appeal of the traffic conviction to circuit court and does not contain a speedy trial rule for the initial trial on the traffic offense in district court there is no set speedy trial rule for your trial in district court. Even if the above rule did apply to district court, since you are not in custody the state would have 9 months, and your trial is within 9 months. And finally, the statute sets out a number of things that will extend the speedy trial rules, which include time that the trial cannot be held by reason of "a natural disaster, civil disorder, or act of God". I think the courts would have no trouble saying court closures due to the covid pandemic counts a delay due to an act of God.

In short, I'm not seeing a good speedy trial defense for you on this one.

Thank you again for your help. It is a little daunting- even though it is "just" traffic court. I feel a little dumb pursuing and not just paying. But I dont see how this was a speeding ticket. It felt a lot like a speed trap of some kind- even though the speed limit sign clearly said 25mph if light flashing, no light flashing to me means it is 35mph which is what my car speed limit said.

 

[FlyingRon]

It would appear you actually were speeding. Your statement that you "don't see how you were speeding" isn't going to be very persuasive. There's no prohibitions on "speed traps" in Virginia. Now you're throwing out details you omitted earlier.

Was this a school zone? Were you cited with 46.2-873? Where was this?

 

[LMDVA]

It would appear you actually were speeding. Your statement that you "don't see how you were speeding" isn't going to be very persuasive. There's no prohibitions on "speed traps" in Virginia. Now you're throwing out details you omitted earlier.

Was this a school zone? Were you cited with 46.2-873? Where was this?

It was 46.2-874
In front of a school at 13:15 with no school activiy or lights flashing- I am not sure if the school was in session or not. I am not familar with the area on Seminary Rd in ALexandria VA, but it is a 4 lane road just before a major highway entrance which is why I happened to be there.

 

[LMDVA]

It would appear you actually were speeding. Your statement that you "don't see how you were speeding" isn't going to be very persuasive. There's no prohibitions on "speed traps" in Virginia. Now you're throwing out details you omitted earlier.

Was this a school zone? Were you cited with 46.2-873? Where was this?

I was traveling at 38 mph , my car displayed speed limit displayed 35mph. The speed limit sign stated 25mph when light flashing. No light flashing. I was in traffic flow with other drivers driving at that time.

 

[FlyingRon]

That's very odd. That's not the school zone section, it's the residential/business maximum speed. Was this out in front of Hammond Middle School (just southeast of I-395), by any chance? My sister and father live right there (they're both attorneys, but you can't afford them). That law doesn't apply to four lane roads such as Seminary Road there. I'd point that out in court. However, you may still lose. The posted speed limit there appears to be 25 (so the School zone flashers don't really change anything other than making you subject to other laws).

 

[LMDVA]

That's very odd. That's not the school zone section, it's the residential/business maximum speed. Was this out in front of Hammond Middle School (just southeast of I-395), by any chance? My sister and father live right there (they're both attorneys, but you can't afford them). That law doesn't apply to four lane roads such as Seminary Road there. I'd point that out in court. However, you may still lose. The posted speed limit there appears to be 25 (so the School zone flashers don't really change anything other than making you subject to other laws).

WOW small world ! You say it appears to be 25mph ? How would a driver know that is the speed limit ? I turned left off of Jordan, went down the hill, and got pulled over. I went back later to see where the speed limit signs were- the first one is in front of school which is near but ahead of where I was pulled over- less than 0.1mile from that sign . I was pulled over at the bottom of the hill. I did see the sign for sure as I drove away afterwards- and that is how I know it was not flashing.

 

[FlyingRon]

I'd go to court and argue 874 doesn't apply because Seminary road is four or more lanes there (and for a good distance on both sides of where you were stopped). If they bring up the school, I'd point out its irrelevant to what you were charged with.

 

[LMDVA]

I'd go to court and argue 874 doesn't apply because Seminary road is four or more lanes there (and for a good distance on both sides of where you were stopped). If they bring up the school, I'd point out its irrelevant to what you were charged with.

THANK YOU ! Ill do that !