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  #1  
Old 02-05-2008, 10:04 AM
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Posts: 6

OK, more specific then


Union worker in Washington State.
If the employer is being evil, and the union is doing nothing, at what point can or should a person think about getting an attorney to represent him?
Can the attorney address the union and employer simultaneously?
Do you have to wait for damages to occur, and if so, what sort of damages?
Does time off without pay count or do damages have to be more severe?
If the employer has fired or given time off w/o pay to several employees, and they want to combine resources, can an attorney represent their grievances as a group?
How difficult is it to prove in a court of law that the union leadership (by this I mean "the hall", not the local steward and unit chair) is failing to represent the union members?
If the hall just steps back while the employer reinterprets clearly-spelled out clauses in our contract, how bad does it have to get before you have anything to work with?
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2008, 04:34 PM
cbg cbg is offline
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How about you being a little more specific?

In what way is the employer being "evil"? There's plenty of behavior the employees might not like that do not give rise to any kind of legal action.
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2008, 07:47 PM
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Yeah, I've been learning that the hard way, and after reading thru dozens of posts on this forum I'm getting a feel for how much worse it could get, like in those "at will" states.

Here's the latest, and I know it's not going to be something that the company could be sued over. It's an example of how our union leadership is sitting on their hands.
Our contract clearly states (big bold letters) that 25% of any "work group" can be off on vacation at any time. The wording was put in place long ago. 25 years or more. Employer doesn't like it because they have to pay overtime every once in a while to cover the work. We're an operations crew; the demand is 24/7.
So they've reinterpreted "work group" to say that it's not the entire group or classification of workers across all four shifts (roughly 40 employees), it's just one crew. They're saying that computes to one person at a time off on vacation. If you add up all of our accrued vacation, there aren't enough days in the year even if the company forced people to use theirs during the least desirable times. Their response to that - "we'll let you carry it over". So the next year the overflow will be worse, and the next year - well, you get the idea.
The hall is going thru the grievance process. The grievance process costs money at the third step and the company knows that's where the union drops it. If the union rolls over on this, the co. will know they can do anything.

Here are some quick examples with less detail.

A supervisor turned down an employee's vacation request, and just penciled him in on a Monday, telling the employee that worked out better for the company. Did it twice to the same employee.

Our product is being received by train now. Couple of years ago the company came out and said we have to stay at our posts til relieved when a train's unloading. We have an overtime policy. It's been written in stone for years. It determines who's asked for overtime (not forced) using a "redtime" list that tracks overtime either worked and/or turned down. Now you get the overtime, it's mandatory, makes no difference if you're high on redtime or low, junior or senior. The only factor is whether your position during that shift is tied to the train or not. Union has done nothing even though this clearly undermines the entire overtime policy and sets some scary precedents.

Company has started "mandatory" meetings on our off-hours. We work 12 hour shifts. The job isn't fun. I value my time off. Latest example - they're having some sort of "Safety Awareness" meeting in a town that's 20 miles away from the work site. It's "mandatory".

I got a letter a few months back when the supervisor got on the radio at the end of a long nightshift and said we all had to hold over to cover the next crew, who was going to a "meeting". We've never been forced to hold over unless it was some sort of operational emergency. I said I didn't think they could hold me over, I felt sick, and wanted to go home. The supervisor said it was awful suspicious that I suddenly got sick, and said I should leave right now or cover the overtime. I stayed, scared of what might happen if I didn't. As I was rounding up my lunchpail, the supervisor "thanked" me. I told him there was no thanks involved, I did it because I was scared not to. I got a letter for "unprofessional" and "disrespectful" behavior and 2 days suspension.

Another operator volunteered to play Santa at the annual Kid's Christmas Party, held early in the evening. He shows up with his Santa suit. A secretary, not a supervisor, tells him that someone called in sick and he "has" to report to work. Although unhappy about it, he went. I have no idea who filled in as Santa for the kids He e-mailed to the guy up the food chain above his boss, complaining about being forced to work, and being forced by a secretary at that. He got a letter for "unprofessional" and "disrespectful" behavior and time off without pay.

Another operator was spotted without his seatbelt buckled in a forklift. Co. tried to fire him on the spot, saying he had a history of unsafe actions. The week before a supervisor caught him coming out of a dusty area, and taking off his hardhat to bang the dust off. Taking the hardhat off for a few seconds apparently counted as a violation.

I realize that none of the above is enough to go to court and sue the company or union for millions of dollars. Us laypeople get funny ideas about how the legal system works from TV. But there's a frightening pattern evolving and I want to know if there's any way to get ahead of it. I'm one "unprofessional" comment away from being fired (28 year employee) and several others are on thin ice too. The union has always been unreliable and a little squirrely, but lately they're just out to lunch.
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  #4  
Old 02-05-2008, 08:48 PM
cbg cbg is offline
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Guess what, you're also in one of those "at-will" states. The only state that is not at least nominally at-will is Montana, and even Montana recognizes the at-will doctrine in some circumstances.

Nothing that you have posted violates any labor laws. None of the "evil" things that your employer has done, gives you any legal recourse as far as that goes. If they violate your CBA, then that's something you have to take up with the union. If the union is not following up, then I would suggest that you either contact the NLRB or speak to an attorney who is knowledgeable about union contracts.
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2008, 10:31 AM
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Thanks, cbg, for taking the time to read thru my tirade.

BTW, I hang out at several forums, mostly geek-related, and have never seen anyone with 18,400+ posts. Wow

So I can just wipe that grin off my face about about not living in an "at-will" state, eh?

Thanks for your synopsis. I've never had any discussion with NLRB. Have heard that NLRB isn't very responsive to labor after several years of massaging by the party currently in charge...
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2008, 02:08 PM
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as cbg stated, everythnig you have posted must be dealt with through the union and the greivance procedures you have in place.

as to the comment about the NLRB; you never know what will happen if you are afraid to contact them. As it is, it seems most are not happy and corrections should be attempted.

Quote:
So they've reinterpreted "work group" to say that it's not the entire group or classification of workers across all four shifts (roughly 40 employees), it's just one crew.
so, what has the union told you regarding this re-interpretation?

Quote:
Our product is being received by train now. Couple of years ago the company came out and said we have to stay at our posts til relieved when a train's unloading. We have an overtime policy. It's been written in stone for years. It determines who's asked for overtime (not forced) using a "redtime" list that tracks overtime either worked and/or turned down. Now you get the overtime, it's mandatory, makes no difference if you're high on redtime or low, junior or senior. The only factor is whether your position during that shift is tied to the train or not. Union has done nothing even though this clearly undermines the entire overtime policy and sets some scary precedents.
from this point of view, the company's directive actually makes sense. Why would you change out a person performing a specific task in the middle of the task? It is very understandable for the person at task to continue with that specific task until completion. So, have you spoken to your union reps about this? Has there been an understanding agreed upon that would allow this?

Quote:
Company has started "mandatory" meetings on our off-hours. We work 12 hour shifts. The job isn't fun. I value my time off. Latest example - they're having some sort of "Safety Awareness" meeting in a town that's 20 miles away from the work site. It's "mandatory".
and are you being paid for these meetings? Are they allowed or prevented by your CBA?.

Quote:
Another operator volunteered to play Santa at the annual Kid's Christmas Party, held early in the evening. He shows up with his Santa suit. A secretary, not a supervisor, tells him that someone called in sick and he "has" to report to work.
does the secretary have the power to order this? If not, the employee should have refused until the proper authority directed this. If she has the power to do this, then get over it. I feel sorry for the kids but if the secretary is empowered with this, then there is nothing improper.

Quote:
Another operator was spotted without his seatbelt buckled in a forklift. Co. tried to fire him on the spot, saying he had a history of unsafe actions. The week before a supervisor caught him coming out of a dusty area, and taking off his hardhat to bang the dust off. Taking the hardhat off for a few seconds apparently counted as a violation.
and your problem with this is what? If hardhats are mandatory while in a particular area or time, then that ia what it is. I understand about the dust but picture this; they guy takes off the hardhat to dust off or to wipe sweat. The guy on the catwalk overhead kicks something off the catwalk and hits him in the head. Who is at fault? I'll bet the guy hit will want workmans comp to take care of the injury and time off but he wasn't willing to abide by the rules.

Can't have both.

and since he did not have his seatbelt on, apparently he does have a problem with safety rules.

You toss out a lot of things that may or maynot be a problem. Your point of view sees them as a problem. I can see where with a little more info that they are not problems. Either file greivances and follow through with them or accept them. If the union is not representing as required, then your action is against your union so call the NLRB or an attorney as cbg suggested.

Either play by the rules or you will get beat by the rules.
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