• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Dia de los Muertos ritual required in 1st grade violates constitution?

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

R

rkress

Guest
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? colorado

Would a school that not merely taught about but actually required elementary students to participate in Dia de los Muertos ritual behavior including making clay sculptures of deceased people and animals for an "altar in the school lobby" be in violation of consitutional law?
 


I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
rkress said:
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? colorado

Would a school that not merely taught about but actually required elementary students to participate in Dia de los Muertos ritual behavior including making clay sculptures of deceased people and animals for an "altar in the school lobby" be in violation of consitutional law?

My response:

What does "Day of the Dead" have to do with religion - - if that's what your point is about?

IAAL
 
R

rkress

Guest
It's pagan but religious none the less

Día de los Muertos or Day of the Dead, is also known as Fiesta de los Muertos. It is a holiday (or festival) which is celebrated in México, Central and South America, and in some areas of the United States, especially, the southwest. This holiday originates with the indigenous native pre-Hispanic peoples of México. These early people believed that the souls of the dead return each year to visit with their living relatives. When the Spaniards arrived in the early fifteen hundreds, they found well established native religions. The Aztec people held rituals that included the use of skulls. To the Aztec, skulls were used to symbolize death and rebirth. The Spanish priests perceived the rituals to be barbaric and pagan. The priests made an extreme attempt to assimilated indigenous people into the Catholic Church. Assimilation occasionally proved difficult when these people already had their own holy days.
The Aztec ritual was originally held in summer during the Aztec month of Miccailhuitontli, approximately corresponds to 24 July through 12 August. The Catholic Church moved the ritual to the beginning of November to coincide with two Catholic holidays, All Saints’ Day, a Christian Feast that honors and remembers all Christian saints, kept on the first of November, and All Souls Day, the commemoration of all the faithful departed, celebrated on the second of November.
The early Spaniards merged the ritual within the two Catholic holidays, in the hopes that Día de los Muertos would disappear forever. What has happened is that the traditional native holiday has become intermixed with the Catholic tradition but still exists.
Today, in many Méxican localities the first of November is the day for remembrance of deceased infants and children, often referred to as Día de los Angelitos or day of little angels. Those who have died as adults are honored on the second of November.
The Día de los Muertos fiesta varies somewhat by region and by degree of urbanization. In rural Mexico, people visit the cemeteries where their loved ones are interred. Home altars also take a major part in the festival. It is believed that the souls of the departed are attracted to the home altars made beautiful with flowers, baked goods, candies, fruits, and religious figures. The festivals are decorated with calaveras or skulls, animated figures of calacas or skeletons, and yellow-orange zempasuchils or marigolds.
 
R

rkress

Guest
The problem is..

The problem is- requiring students to make clay figures for an altar is no different than requiring students pray.

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the the word "altar"?

Main Entry: al·tar
Pronunciation: 'ol-t&r
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English alter, from Old English altar, from Latin altare; probably akin to Latin adolEre to burn up
1 : a usually raised structure or place on which sacrifices are offered or incense is burned in worship
2 : a table on which the eucharistic elements are consecrated or which serves as a center of worship or ritual
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Okay, then make it an art project.

I don't follow the Day of the Dead festivities either, but I wouldn't get up in arms about it unless they were going to make my kids pray at the altar. It is a little unnerving to me for children to be making clay skulls or cadavers so THAT might give me some reason to say, "No".

Now, if my kids can make a little manger scene in art class in December, then I might be placated a bit. But if they view a manger scene as inappropriate, and this one as mandatory, we're gonna have a problem.

So far, other than an a slightly misinformed 1st grade teacher who refused to allow my son to share his favorite book - the Holy Bible - on his reading day a few years back, I have never run into any serious public school religious problems. (The Bible incident was resolved quickly - the Princiapl was much better informed than the teacher ... though with the ACLU running around out here, I'm not surprised the teacher reacted the way she did.)

- Carl
 
R

rkress

Guest
Aclu, Where Are You!

I'm coming from a different place on this. I'm not upset because pagan altars confuse my otherwise perfectly brainwashed Christian 1st grader.

I want her to have "freedom from religion" and this includes all kinds of ancient pagans, neohippy pagans, branch dividians, buddhists, hindus, muslims, lds, big scary catholics and good ole southern baptists.

Doesn't seperation of church & state apply when it's a pagan church?

We'll know in a few weeks when I get a response back from the ACLU.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Unfortunately for you, there is no right to a "freedom FROM religion" ... there is freedom OF religion, and this has been somehow interpreted to mean that the state cannot support a particular religion through certain activities. In many places, Christmas shows are just fine ... in others, they are seen with gasps of horror that the state would dare to force Christmas upon anyone ... even though images of Santa Claus, reindeer, and Christmas trees are about as innocuous as you can get (and are NOT symbols of Christian faith).

Heck, when I was in high school, we played <GASP> Christmas music (!!) in chamber orchestra and in a Baroque quartet! Now, I hear suits trying to prevent this music from being performed at all.

It can get ridiculous.

I don't care for the Day of the Dead, but I wouldn't waste any great deal of time over it either. Certainly there must be some better battles to fight.

- Carl
 

cmorris

Member
The teacher is probably just trying to include history and culture (it is probably in the state's standards). It is also hands-on/kinesthetic (Gardner's Multiple Intelligences) and incorporates art (multidisciplinary).
 

badapple40

Senior Member
This is an establishment clause issue. Assuming there isn't a religious sect preference, the analysis of this issue is governed by the U.S. Supreme Court's Lemon test. I believe the question is whether or not this day of the dead business is a religion, vis-a-vis a non-religious cultural study. If there is more to it than merely making clay sculptures, I'd say there might be a constitutional violation.

Public schools are governmental instutions and are subject to the restrictions imposed on governmental bodies generally. Board of Education v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994). There is at good argument the teacher's practice, if it is to have students participate in a religious activity of one sect/religion over the exclusion of others, is a sect preference and unconstitional under Grumet. Again, this turns on specific facts that are not clear to me from the original post, namely whether what went on is in fact a practice of a particular religion.

Any prayer or bible reading in public school, as a school directed activity, violates the establishment clause. Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962); Addington School Dist. v. Schemp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963). It doesn't matter whether the prayer period is mandatory or voluntary or whether it is disguised as a moment of silence. Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985).

You can't even post the ten commandments in the classroom. Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980).

So whats this turn on? Whether or not the teacher encouraged/sanctioned the practice of a religion (e.g. moment of silence with your clay corpse), vis-a-vis merely making a statue that can probably be characterized as a cultural study. Thats my analysis, though I suspect any attorney reasonably competent in constitutional law would probably advise the same.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top