Sam's/Wal-Mart Illegal Search and Seizure

[UserValerie]

Theorectically, at this juncture, we are protected from illegal search and seizure from the police. As we should be. Interestingly, we are not protected from illegal search and seizure from another source: Wal-Mart/Sam's Club. This organization reserves the right to paw through your purchases "to verify them" without warning and without cause as you leave their stores with no pretext whatsoever. No signs are posted warning shoppers of this because, as one manager said, such signs have a negative connotation. Their contention: "We've always done it that way."

First of all, that is untrue: they haven't always done it that way. Second, they refuse to give a reason for their illegal searches and seizures, saying simply, "If you don't like it, shop elsewhere." Well, I admit it: I'd like to enjoy the same discounted purchases as my neighbors without being subjected to illegal search and seizure.

O.K., they did give one reason for the policy. It is to protect shoppers from checkers who may have entered something incorrectly (or dishonest shoppers perhaps?). I'm tired of people trying to protect me from myself or someone else. Also, it should be noted that the policy is not applied uniformly. Those who look different from the norm are always checked while others are passed on through without being checked at all.

If Wal-Mart/Sam's will simply observe the law as it stands, so will I. I promise.

 

[talianna]

I used to be a Wal-mart employee and was on their safety and loss prevention team, so I know a little about how they run things.

I understand Sam's Club's reasoning for checking receipts. It's very simple. The front end of a Sam's Club is very open, meaning people can bypass the checkouts and go out the front door, possibly without being noticed by the cashiers or anyone else, except the people at the door.

We've had a Sam's Club for about 12 years here, it's always had an exit greeter.

Wal-mart's exit system's newer, but it does keep people from stuffing small security tagged items into their pockets and head through the door unnoticed. Yeah, it's a pain when it does the "We're sorry, you have activated Wal-mart's-" well, whatever the speech the system gives you. It's embarassing waiting for the person to check your stuff, but it also keeps prices from going up in the long run because the amount of loss through shoplifting has gone down somewhat.

 

[T-DESIGNER]

UserValeria - I've had the same thoughts myself! When are you
the owner of a purchase? The moment you pay for the product?
The moment you walk outside the store? The moment you are
off the store's property?

Watch Out!

Walmart may knock on your door in the middle of the night!
The store's inventory did not match today's sales, and they are
paying a visit to everyone who came into the store today!
How do they know? They have the latest facial recognition
cameras and software!

Theoretically, unless they have probable cause, they should
not be looking at your purchases, let alone fumbling through
your purchases. If a security tag alarm goes off, I feel they
have probable cause for asking to look at your purchases,
and if it keeps going off, I feel they have proable cause to
retain you or to perform a personal search. If a security
guard or camera sees suspicious activity, the same applies.

If it is the cashier's fault for the security tag alarm going off,
you at least deserve a free hot dog for the embarassment.
Everytime I leave WalMart, I yell out "BEEEEP" in the highest
pitch I can muster.

I can understand their marking your receipt with a felt pen, to
prevent someone from immediately returning into the store,
filling up the shopping basket with the same items, and strolling
out the door. That I can understand.

The next time you go to Sam's Wholesale Club, bring your own
shopping bags, and a friend with a video camera. Have your
friend video tape your paying for the purchases, and your
bagging of the purchases. Keep video taping as you are
leaving the store, and if they demand to see your purchases,
ask to speak with the manager, but keep on videotaping.
Ask the manager why you are being retained? Keep repeating
the question, because in effect, you are being retained without
probable cause!

Don't let any company steal your freedom!

 

[CMSC]

First of all if you have a problem with securing a business from shoplifters, then don't shop there! How would you like to be the owner of a store that has a shoplifting attempt every few minutes? Do you think you have the right to protect yourself against that?
Look up your search and seizure ammendment and then come back and argue it.
I don't know what kind of Sam's you have been in but the one I shop in sells everything in bulk (duh, that's the purpose of the store) and those items are so big they are obvious to the naked eye. How much rummaging do they have to do to check you receipt with the items you purchase? NOt much, they have not bags to open, once in a while there is a box but thoses boxes are low cut crate boxes that expose all items. So don't get all huffy! Yes you own the products but they aren't searching for those items they are searching for the ones you possibly did not pay for!
Sam's is not the only one that does this, so does Costco, why aren't you getting mad at them???

Oh, one more thing, how long have they kept you detained while marking off your purchases?? 5 seconds??? 1 minute?? I bet it is a lot less time than it took you to find an ammendment to suit your compaint, get a user i.d. on this site, find someone stupid enough like me to respond and start a heated debate.

Move on, it is over.

P.S. has anyone ever refused to have their receipt marked off??? what has happened then?

 

[talianna]

YAAAAAY RYRY'S MOM!!!!

I knew you were one of the smart ones!!!!

The whole scenario set up above with the video camera would NOT be allowed to happen. They'd never get past the door greeter. Wal-mart Stores Inc has a strict policy against that, and if you look hard enough it's usually posted somewhere around the front door. If they refused to shut off the camera and leave the store, they'd be escorted away by the police.

And why should Wal-mart give people free hot dogs if it's a false alarm on a security tag? A lot of people would intentionally drag an item back over the deactivator thing and reactivate it so they could get free food every time they were in! Besides, the whole idea is to save money, and giving free stuff to people isn't upping the profit margin.

Not only that, something I should've mentioned before. Illegal search and seizure only applies to protection from government officials. Last time I checked, although Wal-mart sometimes has delusions that it runs the world, they're not a governmental agency.

 

[CombatTN88]

How to thwart Walmart -

Since you pay for your purchase, you don't have to show that receipt to the Nazi guard. Just walk outside toward your car. Remember, you CAN'T BE ARRESTED because you NEVER shoplifted in the first place.

One good question... let say if you misplaced your receipt after buying your items, what if that Nazi guard demands to see your proof of recepit? That only leads to problems...

The method (search and seizure) conducted by the WalMart Nazi guard is UNCONSTITITONAL. Remember, fight for your US CONSTITITONAL RIGHTS.

BOYCOTT WALMART OR REFUSE TO SHOW A RECEIPT BECAUSE YOU ALREADY BOUGHT AND OWN YOUR ITEM.

Regards, Combat

PS. If you asked me if I did that, yeah you bet it. I fought and love to argue about my constititional rights. There is not anything Walmart can do about it. On one occassion, I gave a Nazi guard a big finger up without showing a receipt.

 

[talianna]

Yoohoo! Time to revisit reality, Combat!

The search and seizure right is a protection against GOVERNMENT officials searching and seizing your property to use it against you without going through the proper channels. Didn't see anywhere that the Founding Fathers mentioned "The general public shall be free of searches at exit points of discount stores" anywhere in the Constitution. Wal-mart may be big, but they're still not a government office- although I'm hearing that annexing the government under their corporate banner isn't far off.

Even if they were covered under this, how can you say that stuff you just put out on a register for a clerk to ring up in view of everyone anywhere nearby has the right to a reasonable expectation of privacy less than two minutes later? Especially when the bags are transparent enough to see labels of anything pressed against them. If you're not stealing anything, why does it bother you so much that people are looking to make sure you've paid for everything in those bags? I assure you, those people really don't care if you bought Preparation-H or picked your wife's feminine hygeine products up for her, they only care if you didn't pay for them.

I'll bet you think that the freedom of speech thing was meant for you to be allowed to stand at the courtesy desk of said Wal-mart and tell everyone who walks by how big and bad you are for blowing by little old ladies (or men) at the exits of the Wal-mart or Sam's without letting them see your receipt. I can see you now in that oh-so-attractive undershirt you've got a picture of yourself wearing on your website in, screaming "FREE SPEECH!" as they escort you out and ask you not to come back- which I'm sure you think it's your Constitutional right to shop there, don't you?

The Bill of Rights was intended for protecting people against the government persecuting them for objecting to something it did. NOT to allow people to disrupt businesses and give them license to be jerks in public.

 

[talianna]

Just found this... which applies to Wal-mart.

Private security personnel currently outnumber police officers in the United States by three to one. As a result, whether you're shopping in a supermarket or a pharmacy, working in an office building or visiting a friend in a housing project, you may be more likely to be confronted by a security guard than by a police officer. At the present time, the Fourth Amendment does not apply to searches carried out by non-governmental employees like private security guards. For example, assume that a shopping mall security guard acting on a pure hunch (that is, lacking probable cause) searches a teenager's backpack. Inside the backpack the guard finds a baggie containing an illegal drug. The guard can detain the teenager, call the police and turn the drug over to a police officer. The drug is admissible in evidence, because the search was conducted by a private security guard. As private security guards increasingly exercise traditional police functions, courts may one day apply Fourth Amendment guidelines to their conduct.

But they don't now!

 

[CombatTN88]

Yeah. I know that this has do nothing with the US Constitutition, but it is something that we ought to fight for. It is not my first time to hear from tons of people because I have been hearing people's stories and complaints about Wal-Mart or Fry's, etc.. Try GOOGLE search on FRY or FRYS with NAZI or NAZISM. You will know what I am talking about.

I know that Wal Mart is only trying to protect from shoplifters which I absoultely supported that, but the question is that what about honest people like us?

Regards, Combat

 

[justathought]

A) Heard of "shopkeepers privilege"?

B) If you are truly honest, this activity shouldn't offend you that greatly if it's a random check... Although I wouldn't mind some kind of token for the inconvenience!

 

[CMSC]

Yeah. I know that this has do nothing with the US Constitutition, but it is something that we ought to fight for. It is not my first time to hear from tons of people because I have been hearing people's stories and complaints about Wal-Mart or Fry's, etc.. Try GOOGLE search on FRY or FRYS with NAZI or NAZISM. You will know what I am talking about.

I know that Wal Mart is only trying to protect from shoplifters which I absoultely supported that, but the question is that what about honest people like us?

Regards, Combat

Okay Combat, if it has nothing to do with the Constitution then why did you say this, "The method (search and seizure) conducted by the WalMart Nazi guard is UNCONSTITITONAL. Remember, fight for your US CONSTITITONAL RIGHTS. "

Once again, some one has distorted the constitution to suit them and their situation.

As far as Walmart and us honest people..hmmm... well maybe you should think about it this way, Walmart is protecting us honest people. They are fighting back against shop lifters so that they can keep prices lower for us honest people.

Talianna, thanks for the last post about the 4th ammendment not applying to Walmart. It is about time someone made people aware that the constitution is NOT always about them and their "cause"!!

 

[CombatTN88]

What I should had say was that this ought to be unconstititional and that we ought to fight for our rights which I admitted that I mislead my first post. So, my fault okay...

Regards, Combat

 

[ellencee]

do you mean to say you have nothing more to gripe about than a store checking your receipt against your purchases? if this society of ours wasn't so full of thieves, it wouldn't be necessary.
now, when they start frisking me or going through my purse, handbag, pocketbook, or whatever you call it in your area, then I'm going to start thinking illegal search and seizure.
blame the thieves who necessitate this, not WalMart or Sam's or any other store.

 

[plifter]

What happens if you tell the security guard off and walk out the door?

 

[CMSC]

What happens if you tell the security guard off and walk out the door?

Well plifter the next time you go into Sam's Club to stock up on baby oil for jerking off while driving maybe you could tell off the guard and walk out and see what happens.