Separation of Church and State Question

[JOliver]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

Good afternoon - here is a question regarding the Separation of Church and State.

Would it be considered a violation of said right if a Court hands down a sentence that the defendant must attend a class in a Methodist Church and said Church is the only place this class is available?

If the defendant does not attend the class, they would then be found in violation of probation, with no alternative to take said class.

It should be noted the class is in the actual Church itself in the pew where the Bible is present and other Methodist religion propaganda is available.

Thanks for any insight.

[FlyingRon]

The mere fact that the AA or whatever it is you're talking about meets in a church building isn't a violation of your rights. If just being in the presence of a bible and other religious knick-knacks damages you, perhaps you need to stay in your coffin during the day and venture out only in the darkness.

Now if the class is organized by a religious organization and uses religious tenets in it's presentation/curriculum, you MIGHT have some leverage on the sentencing.

[CdwJava]

Of course, you can always refuse to accept the conditions of your probation and ask to serve all your time in jail.

It really is your choice.

Oh, and if the tenets of the Methodist faith offend you so much, then you are certainly free not to read ANY of the documents in the pews in front of you.

- Carl

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by FlyingRon

If just being in the presence of a bible and other religious knick-knacks damages you, perhaps you need to stay in your coffin during the day and venture out only in the darkness.

Dang you! I nearly spewed my mocha all over my keyboard!

- Carl

[frylover]

Originally Posted by FlyingRon

If just being in the presence of a bible and other religious knick-knacks damages you, perhaps you need to stay in your coffin during the day and venture out only in the darkness.

ROTFL!

I would also like to point out to the OP that Methodism (is that a real word?) is NOT contagious. You aren't going to "catch the germ" by sitting in the pew.

[Adalaide78]

I suppose maybe he's afraid that a wooden cross somewhere may fall off a wall and happen to stab him through the heart. Maybe he'll burst into flames upon entering as well... who knows? I suppose though if that's the case he's off the hook for attending future meetings.

[CdwJava]

This has been a consistent complaint by some people trying to avoid taking alcohol counseling. However, most do not complain about the site so much as they complain about the fact that the 12 step program requires a person acknowledge "a higher power" ... which, in point of fact, can be anything the individual wants it to be. But, some will point to this as a veiled reference to God and thus that it is some form of religious indoctrination.

In the jurisdictions out here if a person objects to taking treatment or classes provided by the courts or county services/contractors, they are free to find their own program and seek to have it approved. If so, and you find one that is 50 miles away, you cannot later come back and whine that you missed classes because of how far away it was because you picked it.

But, probation is not a right. So, one can usually choose to serve all their time. Or, they can refuse to comply and go BACK to jail until they have no time left.

- Carl

[cbg]

It should be noted the class is in the actual Church itself in the pew where the Bible is present and other Methodist religion propaganda is available.

And perhaps you will be good enough to point to where in the Constitution you are promised that you will never, at any time, have to come into contact with religious material?

You are promised the right to worship as you choose, or to choose not to worship. At no time were you promised the right to a life free from having to see a religious object.

[ecmst12]

AA meetings are held in all kinds of places, not just churches. If being in the church is so horrible, then I'm certain you could find another meeting in a less offensive location. For someone who WANTS to get sober though, the meeting itself is much more important then the location.