An 'Ultra Vires' President?

[Alex Wallenwein]

What is the name of your state? Texas

On July 17, 2007, president Bush has signed an executive order claiming the right to "block" all property of any person in the US if his Secretary of the Treasury "determines" that the person has committed a "violent act" or that the person "poses a significant risk" of committing such an act in the future that may have the effect of impairing US policy in Iraq.

He claims that he is empowered to make this executive order by the "International Economic Emergency Powers Act." That act, however, applies only to foreign persons and their property, or property in which a foreign person or country has an interest. 50 USC 1702(a)(1)(A) and (B).

The most egregious power this EO claims is the authority of the Secretary to simply "determine" that someone may commit (i.e., poses a "significant risk" of committing) a violent act in the future! That means any war protester is fair game.

Good bye, rule of law. Hello, Minority Report!

This is patently in violation of both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution, particularly the Fifth Amendment due process clause. It also has a serious 'chilling effect' on free speech. Can Congress nullify this executive order? Can the Supreme Court strike it down? What happens if these two departments of the government do nothing? Do the citizens have any legal recourse?

[marbol]

Welcome to the new United States. Guilty if we say so!

[Some Random Guy]

Such actions may be in violation of the Constitution for US citizens, and others within our borders, but you will find that the constitution doesn't reach that far overseas.

P.S. that still doesn't make it morally right.

[JustAPal00]

It's been legal to murder innocent children in this country for decades, I don't see idiots like you doing anything about that!

[cheapo]

It would seem that JustAPal00 is trying to hijack the thread.

[JustAPal00]

Originally Posted by cheapo

It would seem that JustAPal00 is trying to hijack the thread.

I just meant this yoyo should spend his time trying to help the innocent rather than the guilty!

[AlanShore]

Call your congressman and see how much he cares! Probably about as much as we do on this forum!

[undeniably]

Originally Posted by Alex Wallenwein

What is the name of your state? Texas

Man, this is starting to look more and more like a Communist state.

[SOLDIERFIRST]

Originally Posted by Alex Wallenwein

What is the name of your state? Texas

On July 17, 2007, president Bush has signed an executive order claiming the right to "block" all property of any person in the US if his Secretary of the Treasury "determines" that the person has committed a "violent act" or that the person "poses a significant risk" of committing such an act in the future that may have the effect of impairing US policy in Iraq.

He claims that he is empowered to make this executive order by the "International Economic Emergency Powers Act." That act, however, applies only to foreign persons and their property, or property in which a foreign person or country has an interest. 50 USC 1702(a)(1)(A) and (B).

The most egregious power this EO claims is the authority of the Secretary to simply "determine" that someone may commit (i.e., poses a "significant risk" of committing) a violent act in the future! That means any war protester is fair game.

Good bye, rule of law. Hello, Minority Report!

This is patently in violation of both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution, particularly the Fifth Amendment due process clause. It also has a serious 'chilling effect' on free speech. Can Congress nullify this executive order? Can the Supreme Court strike it down? What happens if these two departments of the government do nothing? Do the citizens have any legal recourse?

Don't break the law.

[Alex Wallenwein]

Originally Posted by SOLDIERFIRST;

Don't break the law.

"Don't break the law", how? By publicly stating your criticism of the administration's Iraq screw-up and then having the Secretary of the Treasury (of all departments!) "determine" in his own mind, in "consultation" with two other secretaries, that you "pose a significant risk" of committing an act of violence that would hinder the war/peace efforts in Iraq?

All it takes under this EO is a "determination" by one of the aforementioned secretaries that you might break the law in the future. In other wors, a thought crime.

If you are happy to live under such a rule, I have nothing else to say.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by AlanShore

Call your congressman and see how much he cares! Probably about as much as we do on this forum!

**A: good one.

[Shay-Pari'e]

Sec. 1701. Unusual and extraordinary threat; declaration of
national emergency; exercise of Presidential authorities

-STATUTE-
(a) Any authority granted to the President by section 1702 of
this title may be exercised to deal with any unusual and
extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial
part outside the United States, to the national security, foreign
policy, or economy of the United States, if the President declares
a national emergency with respect to such threat.
(b) The authorities granted to the President by section 1702 of
this title may only be exercised to deal with an unusual and
extraordinary threat with respect to which a national emergency has
been declared for purposes of this chapter and may not be exercised
for any other purpose. Any exercise of such authorities to deal
with any new threat shall be based on a new declaration of national
emergency which must be with respect to such threat.