payroll calculation question: am I being underpaid??

[ana5587]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

The company that I work for has my manager calculate payroll manually by hand. What the company has my manager do is she calculates how many hours and minutes are worked in each day and after each day is calculated she adds them all up together to get how many hours and minutes an employee has worked.

The issue that I've found with how my manager calculates the time is that the minutes are only counting as an hour after 100 mins is reached instead of 60 mins.
An example is let's say:

8/9/15

Clock in: 11:06AM
Clock out for lunch: 3:18PM
Clock back in from lunch: 3:49PM
Clock out: 6:03PM
Total hours worked: 6 hours & 26 mins

8/10/15
Clock in: 2:00 PM
Clock out for lunch: 5:47PM
Clock back in from lunch: 6:24PM
Clock out: 9:32PM
Total hours worked: 6 hours & 55 mins

Now, the error is when the times are calculated together, like how my manager does, she gets 6:26 + 6:55 = 12.81
The 81 mins is NOT in time format and therefore, 81 mins actually equals 1 hour and 21 mins.
This is what I mean when one hour is not becoming one hour after 60 mins but in fact after 100 mins.

My manager keeps the time at 12:81 and keeps adding the other times. She gets 12:81 but it is actually 13:21 because the 81 mins needs to be converted into time format.
So, I asked her why she adds them together when clearly they need to be added separately. The hours need to be added and then the mins separately and the mins need to be changed into time format. She got upset and said this is how I was told to do. But clearly in adding this way I get paid less than what I actually worked.

So now, my question is am I wrong in how the calculations should be done? Another employee that I work with noticed this the other day as well and asked the manager and she proceeded to get upset again. We are thinking of just taking this issue to HR but before we do we wanted to get input. I've included photos to show how my manager calculates the times and how I feel the times should be calculated. Clearly there is a huge difference in hours/pay with how my manager calculates payroll.

How my manager calculates:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/lovesurf/FullSizeRender.jpg

How I feel it should be calculated. Hours first and then mins converted before being added to hours to get total time.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/lovesurf/FullSizeRender 1.jpg
As you can see, I added the hours first and got 51 hours. I then added the minutes and got 289 mins which is 4 hours and 49 mins.
The total I got was 55 hours and 49 mins. My manager got 54 hours and 29 mins. Huge difference.

Thank you for your help and assistance in advance!!

 

[Zigner]

81 minutes = 1.33 hours (roughly). I suggest that you ask your manager to take this higher up the chain for clarification.

 

[Stephen1]

I once had an employer who displayed all hours worked in a decimal format instead of a hours:minutes format (e.g. instead of 1:15 they would use 1.25). It was a little confusing at first.
So my first question to you is: when you compute each day's work time in the H:M format and then add all the days of the week together, are you getting paid for the correct total? If you aren't then, of course, you have grounds for a complaint. And you may be correct that your manager has slid between H:M and H.M without even realizing the problem.

An alternative is to ask the manager to compute your hours worked for each day using the same decimal system. So using your first example in 24 hr clock and decimals:
Clock in 11.06
Clock out to lunch: 15.18
Click in from lunch: 15.49
Clock out: 18.03
Total hours worked: 6.66 hrs (6 hr 39 minutes) instead of your computation of 6 hrs 26 minutes.
How soon before the company realizes they are overpaying?

 

[ana5587]

Once I compute the H:M worked, if I add them up the way that my manager is adding them I get a completely different number. If you look at the two photos I posted above showing the different ways, you can see there's a huge time difference. My manager may compute the time H:M but when she adds them she adds them using H.M
Therefore, when I approached her asking her that if you compute it a certain way then it surely, has to be added that same way which would be the H:M format. She insisted that she was not wrong and that I was wrong. The problem is that when the H:M is computed it's right but when she adds them using H.M it's wrong because one hour is not becoming an hour until 1.00 when if added the same way it was computed the hour would become an hour at :60. Hence the 6:26 + 6:55 = 12.81 example. The times are correct and in time format but she adds them using decimal format. I don't think that having her do it in decimal format would help because she already does not understand what I mean when there is a difference between H:M and H.M
My manager gets extremely defensive, upset, and emotional when anyone questions her. Because of the way she is adding, all of us employees are losing time due to her calculations. Using the example above, she adds time format using decimal and 13:21 becomes 12:81 under her calculations.

I once had an employer who displayed all hours worked in a decimal format instead of a hours:minutes format (e.g. instead of 1:15 they would use 1.25). It was a little confusing at first.
So my first question to you is: when you compute each day's work time in the H:M format and then add all the days of the week together, are you getting paid for the correct total? If you aren't then, of course, you have grounds for a complaint. And you may be correct that your manager has slid between H:M and H.M without even realizing the problem.

An alternative is to ask the manager to compute your hours worked for each day using the same decimal system. So using your first example in 24 hr clock and decimals:
Clock in 11.06
Clock out to lunch: 15.18
Click in from lunch: 15.49
Clock out: 18.03
Total hours worked: 6.66 hrs (6 hr 39 minutes) instead of your computation of 6 hrs 26 minutes.
How soon before the company realizes they are overpaying?

 

[ana5587]

I believe that this is the next step that I'm going to have to take. Another associate questioned my manager on this and she proceeded to say that she was not wrong and that we were wrong. She does not want to take it to HR or the payroll dept for clarification. I'm assuming because it would be shooting herself in the foot. She's been with the company since January and if this is indeed a mistake then it is a grave mistake on her part and a huge financial mistake. May I ask what are some other options, let's say, if my companys' HR is actually believing it is right and we are wrong and is relaying that to my manager?

81 minutes = 1.33 hours (roughly). I suggest that you ask your manager to take this higher up the chain for clarification.

 

[HC1432]

Once I compute the H:M worked, if I add them up the way that my manager is adding them I get a completely different number. If you look at the two photos I posted above showing the different ways, you can see there's a huge time difference. My manager may compute the time H:M but when she adds them she adds them using H.M
Therefore, when I approached her asking her that if you compute it a certain way then it surely, has to be added that same way which would be the H:M format. She insisted that she was not wrong and that I was wrong. The problem is that when the H:M is computed it's right but when she adds them using H.M it's wrong because one hour is not becoming an hour until 1.00 when if added the same way it was computed the hour would become an hour at :60. Hence the 6:26 + 6:55 = 12.81 example. The times are correct and in time format but she adds them using decimal format. I don't think that having her do it in decimal format would help because she already does not understand what I mean when there is a difference between H:M and H.M
My manager gets extremely defensive, upset, and emotional when anyone questions her. Because of the way she is adding, all of us employees are losing time due to her calculations. Using the example above, she adds time format using decimal and 13:21 becomes 12:81 under her calculations.

If you read Stephen1's response again, you will see that what he identified as a question that remains unanswered is whether you are being paid appropriately. It does appear to be clear that your manager is not adding up your hours correctly. However, can you confirm that when it is sent to payroll, that the H:M sum that your manager has submitted is what is being multiplied by your hourly rate to come up with your gross pay for that period? Or are they doing a conversion to the correct number before they calculate the payment?

If they are using the sum that your manager has submitted, then it does appear that you are being underpaid.

 

[anteater]

Put the question simply so that even a mathematical dunce like me can understand:

Let's say that your hours only add up to the 12:81 and that you get paid $10 per hour.

How much is your gross?

 

[LdiJ]

Put the question simply so that even a mathematical dunce like me can understand:

Let's say that your hours only add up to the 12:81 and that you get paid $10 per hour.

How much is your gross?

Hours cannot add up to 12:81. There are only 60 minutes in an hour. Its possible to have 12.81 hours, but only if the minutes were converted to base 10.

 

[anteater]

Hours cannot add up to 12:81. There are only 60 minutes in an hour. Its possible to have 12.81 hours, but only if the minutes were converted to base 10.

Yes, but the OP says that his/her manager can do so:

Now, the error is when the times are calculated together, like how my manager does, she gets 6:26 + 6:55 = 12.81

So, at an assumed $10 per hour what does the OP get paid? (12 * $10) + (.81 * $10) ????

 

[gem68]

I actually had a job that calculated at 1% of the hours... So when I clocked in at, say, 7:30am, my time stamp showed 7:50 with the 50 being 50% of the hour. It was confusing, but I figured it out.

Are you actually clocking out at 6:50pm when it says that on your time stamp? Or are you clocking at 6:30?

 

[ana5587]

I apologize for leaving the question unanswered. My HR is submitting whatever my manager submits to them so therefore, I am being underpaid. My HR does not double check and assumes that my manager is doing it correctly and submits whatever my manager submits.

If you read Stephen1's response again, you will see that what he identified as a question that remains unanswered is whether you are being paid appropriately. It does appear to be clear that your manager is not adding up your hours correctly. However, can you confirm that when it is sent to payroll, that the H:M sum that your manager has submitted is what is being multiplied by your hourly rate to come up with your gross pay for that period? Or are they doing a conversion to the correct number before they calculate the payment?

If they are using the sum that your manager has submitted, then it does appear that you are being underpaid.

 

[ana5587]

.81 divided by .60 = 1.35
and adding that to 12 = 13.35
x 10 = $133.50

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I am also not an ace at math.
Thank you!

Put the question simply so that even a mathematical dunce like me can understand:

Let's say that your hours only add up to the 12:81 and that you get paid $10 per hour.

How much is your gross?

 

[ana5587]

That is what I've conveyed to my manager but she keeps saying "she is right and thats how HR taught me"
I strongly believe that this is NOT the way that HR taught her. I've explained to her many times that she needs to take .81 and divide it by .60 to get the correct time format. But she disagrees and says that I am in the wrong.

Hours cannot add up to 12:81. There are only 60 minutes in an hour. Its possible to have 12.81 hours, but only if the minutes were converted to base 10.

 

[ana5587]

We are clocking in and out in time format and not in percentages.

I actually had a job that calculated at 1% of the hours... So when I clocked in at, say, 7:30am, my time stamp showed 7:50 with the 50 being 50% of the hour. It was confusing, but I figured it out.

Are you actually clocking out at 6:50pm when it says that on your time stamp? Or are you clocking at 6:30?

 

[ana5587]

another interesting thing my manager stated to me when we were going over payroll is that she stated that "overtime is calculated after 9 mins."

Is this correct? In CA, isnt overtime calculated as anything over 8 hours in a day?