tips and "no tip policy"

[Kelly Burr]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NV I have a weird question. If a business has a "no tip policy", but clearly at each of the establishments, a tip bucket is put out, is there any legal reason that those tips should not be shared equally amongst the staff on duty at the time? My son works at a restaurant, has been there for about four months, and has yet to see any tips. At each of the other restaurants in town, they share the tips equally. At his place, the tip bucket gets removed when he comes in to work, any money that is left by customers is put in the register, and none of the employees are getting any of the gratuities. Is this legal? If they have a "no tip policy" at the restaurants, then I would think that no one could collect any tips. But, because I work in the franchise office, I know that ALL the other stores in this area are geeting their tips. He has spoken with an area manager about this, but just got the same old answer. We have a "no tip policy". Based on the info given to me by other managers, it could be quite a bit of cash that no one is getting. The managers cannot account for the money either. Any help would be great. Thanx....

 

[justalayman]

well, since he is being paid at least minimum wage, he has no claims to the tips. It may seem a bit shady on the manager or owners part but I do not see anything illegal about asking a patron to give the manager/owner more money than they were billed, which is essentially what is happening.

 

[Kelly Burr]

tip no tip

According to NV state labor laws, It is unlawful for employers to withhold tips from employees, so how can it be legal? If all the other stores in the area are splitting tips amongst the employees, how can one store defy the rules and have it be legal? All he wants is what is due to him. If this is the case, and a guest gives him a tip, then it would be legal for him to put it in his pocket, yes?

 

[justalayman]

NRS 608.160 Taking or making deduction on account of tips or gratuities unlawful; employees may divide tips or gratuities among themselves.
1. It is unlawful for any person to:
(a) Take all or part of any tips or gratuities bestowed upon his employees.
(b) Apply as a credit toward the payment of the statutory minimum hourly wage established by any law of this State any tips or gratuities bestowed upon his employees.
2. Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to prevent such employees from entering into an agreement to divide such tips or gratuities among themselves.
[1:17:1939; 1931 NCL § 2826] + [2:17:1939; 1931 NCL § 2827]—(NRS A 1967, 623; 1971, 1263; 1973, 644)

I suggest the distinction would be at what point are the tips to be considered to have been "bestowed upon the employees"

If the tips are left at the table, I would agree with you 100% but the fact there is a tip jar, I believe that leads the interpretation of who the tips belong to in question.


In another thread on this forum, one of the well respected HR people posted this is response to a tip jar where the employee was receiving greater than minimum wages:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/wage-salary-issues-96/not-allowed-food-water-breaks-sc-473522.html

pattytx
Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: small town, PA
Posts: 5,408
Reason I was asking is that, if she was being paid sub-mininimum wage as a directly-tipped employee, then she would have to receive at least enough of the tip jar to make up the difference. Since that is not the case, legally, the tip jar belongs to the employer, not the employees, although customers will assume that the tips will be equally shared. She can contact the federal DOL to confirm, but I don't think there is a violation of law here, although this manager is a real piece of work. Good way to lose good employees.

__________________



the federal law:

Retention of Tips: The law forbids any arrangement between the employer and the tipped employee whereby any part of the tip received becomes the property of the employer. A tip is the sole property of the tipped employee. Where an employer does not strictly observe the tip credit provisions of the Act, no tip credit may be claimed and the employees are entitled to receive the full cash minimum wage, in addition to retaining tips they may\should have received.

while there may be precedent where the "tip jar" has been ruled the property of the waitstaff, I know of none.

 

[justalayman]

If this is the case, and a guest gives him a tip, then it would be legal for him to put it in his pocket, yes?

yes, it would be legal but it does not mean the employer cannot fire him for insubordination as he was instructed to not accept tips.

 

[Kelly Burr]

tip no tip

O.K., but what if ALL the other employees at ALL the other stores that we have in town accept and divide tips amongst employees, but not this one? When I spoke with the boss about it, he said no tips, but yet continues to let the stores accept them and divide them. As for the tip bucket, it is a casual restaurant and the customers pay at the register. They will drop a tip in the bucket clearly marked "TIPS", or on occasion leave it on the table. So how does that work? All of the stores in town are owned and operated by the same person, and the director of ops. is at all the stores, sometimes daily. Is it legal to let some but not all? None of the money can be accounted for by the store manager, so where did it go? There have been plenty of times that a guest has said "this is for you, I am leaving you a tip on my CC, but then no one gets them(from that store) I have been to all the stores in my area, and have left tips at all of them, and no one has said"we don't accept/aren't allowed to accept tips. This is clearly an issue with this manager, and the Direc. of Ops. won't handle it properly. I would think for it to be legal, all the stores would have to be consistent, across the board. Any suggestions?

 

[justalayman]

it would be based on an individual store basis. Since there is no law requiring the tips to be considered to be the employees, if a person wants to allow them to become the waitstaff's at one store and not the others, there would be nothing inherently illegal about that.

Now, if the tip was specifically intended for the waitstaff, such as being left at the table or included on the CC, then, it would seem the appropriate action would be to contact the Nevada department of labor.

 

[ecmst12]

Makes me wonder how/if the employer is accounting for that tip money in their bookkeeping and taxes. Putting money in the register that doesn't go along with a rung sale?

 

[justalayman]

accounting for what money?

 

[Alex23]

I've never heard of a business taking the tips from their employees. It sounds very unusual, and I think you should follow up on this.

 

[xylene]

Clearly something is extremely wrong with this.

This resturant is ripping of employees, and more importantly customers.

Let us put it this way - What if the jar said, instead of "TIPS", it said "SPCA Donations" and the managers were pocketing it...

Same cheap kind of fraud. Customer is being shafted. Customer leave a small casual gratuity to reward the staff and motivate service... not pad profits.

Employee should report this to the relevant authorities

 

[nosracm]

Justalayman: So, by your logic, if I leave my tip on the table (property of the employer) with the salt and pepper shakers (also property of the employer) on top as a paper weight, would this tip also become the employers? Is it sinking in now how ridiculous your statements sound?

 

[justalayman]

=nosracm;2368408]Justalayman: So, by your logic, if I leave my tip on the table (property of the employer) with the salt and pepper shakers (also property of the employer) on top as a paper weight, would this tip also become the employers?

I didn't say anything of the sort. A tip left on the table is obviously a customary placement for a tip left for the wait staff.

Is it sinking in now how ridiculous your statements sound?

then argue with the DOL. I didn't write the laws.


as pattytx told the poster in the thread I quoted; they are more than welcome to contact the fed DOL or the states DOL and inquire.

As a counterpoint nosracm;

to whom does the tip jar get distributed?

wait staff, bus staff, cook staff, cleaning crew?

and how is it divided? Equally? by ratio of sales? by customer count for each wait staff member? Just how is it to be divided? If there is a bitch of a waitress and she had no customers put a tip in the jar and there is a little honey that received all of the tips, is it fair that the bitch gets to share in the hard work and customer relations the little honey did? I surely don't think she should but when tip pooling, how is one to decide fairly?

 

[Kelly Burr]

tip no tip

I know that the employee is concerned about possibly losing his job if he makes a complaint. He has spoken with the store manager, and the Direc. of Ops and was basically given the run around on the subject. "We have a no tip policy, so I don't know what you are talking about". Yet after speaking with several other store managers, I was informed that they ALL collect tips, and have worked out their own schedule of when and how they are handed out, all which seems perfectly fine to me. Whether the tips were left in the tip bucket, on the table, or on a CC really doesn't make much difference. They were all left for the various employees on that shift, and should be handled accordingly. It is really hard for someone making minimum wage to hear"Oh, you were terrific, I left your tip on my CC", and then to never see it. I am just wondering why the Direc. of Ops doesn't find it odd and want to have some kind of accountability as to where that money is. Over four months, that would be quite a substantial amount of money, and it is going somewhere.....As this has been unfolding, I have been checking with other managers, and they all have the tip bucket out. When my son gets to work, they take it off the front counter and leave it there until he leaves....Nice, huh?

 

[justalayman]

=nosracm;2368408]Justalayman: So, by your logic, if I leave my tip on the table (property of the employer) with the salt and pepper shakers (also property of the employer) on top as a paper weight, would this tip also become the employers?

I said nothing of the sort. A tip left on a table is a typical method of tipping wait staff. Personally, I would never leave a tip in a jar. If I want to tip, it is given to the wait staff via the "on the table" method

Is it sinking in now how ridiculous your statements sound?[

I didn't write the law. If you have a problem with it, call the fed DOL or the states DOL as pattytx had suggested to the poster in the thread I quoted as well.


Kelly, you may be able to call the dol or the state dol anonymously as simply to inquire as to their take on the situation. I cannot see a reason it would not be able to be answered anonymously.




Just so you folks know; I do not like the tip jar situation and the employer keeping the tips either. I based my response for a great part on patty's answers as she is more knowledgeable than myself in such matters but the bottom line I see is; if they are getting >minimum wage, the employer is not required to use a tip offset to reach minimum wage so it makes it different than if they were getting < minimum wage.