Tips pooled?PTO?

[Johnflo]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

This is my sitiuation, Im a part time slot attendant at a casino and all the attendants whenever tipped by a guest must put it into a box where all tips are pooled. Now full timers receive PTO(Paid time off) as a company benefit, as a part time I don't receive this benefit, so I have two questions, 1. Can full time attendants receive tips on PTO hours ? Since PTO isn't technically "hours worked" can they get tips on those hours since they're not physically here ? And 2. The dispatchers are included in this tip pool since they dispatch us to our designated call, can the dispatchers be included in this pool ? Now the dispatchers occasionally do get tips when on the floor but not regularly, and to be considered in pooled tips you have to put tips received on the pool regularly, but occasionally don't consider you part of it. Can they still be part of the tips pooled ? And when answering these questions, do you have actual legal statutes or laws that support these ?

 

[FlyingRon]

As long as the tips are pooled among people entitled to receive them (other dealers, waitresses, bartenders, but not back of house and certainly not managment or owners). The proportioning of tips is not really regulated by federal or Florida law.

 

[cbg]

Unless your casino has some highly unusual practices the tips do not have anything at all to do with PTO. PTO is rarely if ever granted on time paid, only on time worked. However, no law prohibits an employer from basing it on time paid and including tips. It would be financially foolish for the employer to do so but they legally can if they wish.

To answer the question that I think you are really asking, Yes, it is quite legal for some employees to get PTO and not others, as long as the reason for the difference is not based in a characteristic protected by law (race, religion, national origin etc.). There is nothing illegal or even unusual about full time employees being given PTO but not part time.

And no, there is not (and does not have to be) a statute giving the employer permission to do this. With employment law, in general an action is considered legal unless there is a law that makes it illegal. Since the law does not prohibit PTO from being limited the full time employees, it can be.

 

[LdiJ]

Unless your casino has some highly unusual practices the tips do not have anything at all to do with PTO. PTO is rarely if ever granted on time paid, only on time worked. However, no law prohibits an employer from basing it on time paid and including tips. It would be financially foolish for the employer to do so but they legally can if they wish.

To answer the question that I think you are really asking, Yes, it is quite legal for some employees to get PTO and not others, as long as the reason for the difference is not based in a characteristic protected by law (race, religion, national origin etc.). There is nothing illegal or even unusual about full time employees being given PTO but not part time.

And no, there is not (and does not have to be) a statute giving the employer permission to do this. With employment law, in general an action is considered legal unless there is a law that makes it illegal. Since the law does not prohibit PTO from being limited the full time employees, it can be.

If think that the OP is implying that people who are not working, and who are being paid via PTO are receiving a share of the tip pool. If that is the case it would appear to me that the employer is using pooled tips in order to avoid having to pay minimum wage for employees on PTO out of their own pocket.

 

[cbg]

Then the simple solution would be to not pay the employee, since employees on PTO have no legal expectation of being paid at all.

 

[LdiJ]

Then the simple solution would be to not pay the employee, since employees on PTO have no legal expectation of being paid at all.

Huh? PTO = Paid Time Off

 

[cbg]

There is no LEGAL expectation of PAID time off. Ever. Anywhere. In any state.

 

[LdiJ]

There is no LEGAL expectation of PAID time off. Ever. Anywhere. In any state.

I understand that. However it appears that this employer offers PTO and the OP is disgruntled because the employer is sharing pooled tip money with employees who are off work on PTO. You seem to be focusing on the fact that the OP does not get PTO but if you will re-read the original post the OP's questions focus on the pooled tip sharing.

Clearly the employer is used the pooled tip sharing to avoid having to pay minimum wage out of the employer's pocket for employees on PTO. Again, yes, I understand that the employer does not have to give PTO, but since the employer DOES...the OP is asking for advised on the pooled tip issue. I see where the OP is coming from. I would not like to have to share tips with someone who isn't even working that day either. However, I cannot answer his/her questions on that issue.

 

[cbg]

Okay, let me put it another way to both you and the poster.

Why would the employer put together a convoluted formula to use tip money to pay employees who are off on paid leave, when it would be cheaper, easier, and completely legal to not pay them at all?

Why is the poster assuming that this is taking place? Does he KNOW it's happening or is he only assuming? HOW does he know? And why does it matter to him if he doesn't get tips to start with?

 

[LdiJ]

Okay, let me put it another way to both you and the poster.

Why would the employer put together a convoluted formula to use tip money to pay employees who are off on paid leave, when it would be cheaper, easier, and completely legal to not pay them at all?

Why is the poster assuming that this is taking place? Does he KNOW it's happening or is he only assuming? HOW does he know? And why does it matter to him if he doesn't get tips to start with?

I understand your point about why would the employer do that when it would be cheaper not to give them paid time off at all, but since the employer does, I am willing to take the OP's word that the employer is do that.

Why do you think that he doesn't get tips to start with? I think that was pretty clear in the original post.

Can you just assume that he is getting tips and that the employer is paying employees on PTO out of the tip pool?...for the sake of getting an answer to that question?

 

[cbg]

I thought Ron and I between us already did that. Do you want me to do it again?

Okay.

Yes. As long as the people who are receiving the tips are legally entitled to receive tips, if the employer wants to include people who are out on PTO in the pool he may legally do so. Since he does not legally have to pay them a single penny, it doesn't make one hoot why he is doing it. He doesn't HAVE to pay them minimum wage since they have no legal expectation of being paid, so anything they get is a gift. The law does not address the divvying of the tip pool beyond what Ron already addressed.

Happy now?

(Remember a couple of weeks ago I predicted that you would come back and tell me I was wrong about something, and you got all "Oh, no, I don't disagree with you all that often" on me? THIS is the sort of thing I was talking about. "Oh, you're answering x but the poster really meant y." And you do it ALL THE TIME. Go back and look at your own answers and see for yourself.)