Travel Time as overtime?

[Proserpina]

I believe that the following could apply to the OP:
Travel that keeps an employee away from home overnight is travel away from home. Travel away from home is clearly work time when it cuts across the employee's workday. The time is not only hours worked on regular working days during normal working hours but also during corresponding hours on nonworking days. As an enforcement policy the Division will not consider as work time that time spent in travel away from home outside of regular working hours as a passenger on an airplane, train, boat, bus, or automobile.

This one, also could apply:
An employee who regularly works at a fixed location in one city is given a special one day assignment in another city and returns home the same day. The time spent in traveling to and returning from the other city is work time, except that the employer may deduct/not count that time the employee would normally spend commuting to the regular work site.

It seems to me this particular instance could be one of those "gray areas". He may not be stopping at the office before he heads out to a specified job site. If the arrangements are made ahead ("need to be there by 10 AM, so we all need to leave around 7" and packing up the tools/equipment the day/night before) then he doesn't have to stop at the "office".

I can tell you this: If an employee was injured while traveling to the floating job site, it would more than likely be covered under Workers Comp (for medical and wage loss); Whether the employee started from home or the office. Usual and customary travel to and from work would not be covered under work comp. (if you get ran over by a car, as you walk to work--or drive to work--it's not considered as "work time")

While I fully understand not work comp., I can see where the mandatory travel is a "gray area". Employment law and Work Comp law are often similar in determining whether the employee was actually "on the clock" as it relates to this kind of issue.

(I had already looked at the Fed Regs. and when fed regs and state regs differ from each other, the benefit is given to the employee in most states)

(minor silly hijack) You've typed "fed regs" a few times, and every single darn time I read it as "red flags".

 

[cbg]

While you're reading regs, Lady, take a look at the Portal to Portal Act.

And show me where the poster said anything about overnight travel.

 

[quincy]

Following is a quote from the Pennsylvania Department of Labor and Industry website (the link to which I can't seem to get to work):

"Under Pennsylvania law, an employer must pay for travel time if an employee is required to report to the employer's establishment to clock in, load up, etc. If an employee leaves directly from home to the job site or vice versa it is not paid time."

There were only two lines on travel time pay, one line of which appears to apply to dfer96 - but from the little he said in his post, I am not sure which one.

Perhaps he will return to clarify.

 

[Ladyback1]

While you're reading regs, Lady, take a look at the Portal to Portal Act.

And show me where the poster said anything about overnight travel.

Again, I see it as a gray area.

But....you seem to feel you know more about this, so I will defer to you.

Though I believe that the OP should contact his state's wage and hour board or Dept of Labor, get clarification.

 

[cbg]

I certainly won't argue with that. The DLI is the best resource in any case.

I will grant you it's been a while since I did Payroll. But I did do Payroll. And I still work with them regularly. Did you? And do you?

 

[Ladyback1]

I certainly won't argue with that. The DLI is the best resource in any case.

I will grant you it's been a while since I did Payroll. But I did do Payroll. And I still work with them regularly. Did you? And do you?

Nope....hence why I deferred to you.

You seem to feel that you are correct, and you have much more experience with this sort of thing--and confidence in your knowledge, and experience far outweighs my interpretation and understanding of the situation and the laws/regs.

I don't know if I am correct, I don't have any experience working in HR/Payroll.

My concern was that this could be one of those pesky areas of gray (not to be confused with Fifty Shades of Gray)!

 

[cbg]

If the OP comes back and says he was talking about overnight travel, or to distant cities, we can revisit the question. But I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

 

[quincy]

If the OP comes back and says he was talking about overnight travel, or to distant cities, we can revisit the question. But I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Overnight travel, distant cities AND where the trailer full of tools is located at the start of the day. These and more need to be considered. I think, like Ladyback1 does, that this might not be quite so clear-cut as portal-to-portal.

 

[cbg]

I have nothing but respect for you, Q, but there is nothing in the OP's post that suggests he is talking about overnight travel, and he hasn't described anything that's any worse than my regular weekly commute - and I work in the same office every day. I will grant that my commute is longer than most, but mine is not the longest one even in my office suite, let alone through my employer.

Certainly there's been enough discussion here so that he will know what to say if he's left out facts I should be considering. And I do agree that the best resource for him is the DLI. However, I've reread the OP several times, and until or unless he comes back and says he omitted details about the travel, I stand by my answer. If he does, I am happy to reconsider.

 

[quincy]

I have nothing but respect for you, Q, but there is nothing in the OP's post that suggests he is talking about overnight travel, and he hasn't described anything that's any worse than my regular weekly commute - and I work in the same office every day. I will grant that my commute is longer than most, but mine is not the longest one even in my office suite, let alone through my employer.

Certainly there's been enough discussion here so that he will know what to say if he's left out facts I should be considering. And I do agree that the best resource for him is the DLI. However, I've reread the OP several times, and until or unless he comes back and says he omitted details about the travel, I stand by my answer. If he does, I am happy to reconsider.

I respect you and your knowledge in this area, cbg. There is no question (or should be no question) of that.

But it appears that Pennsylvania says that work time includes travel from home to office/loading dock/whatever if the travel from home to workplace is to clock in or to pick up equipment (or whatever) PRIOR TO leaving for a job site. So dfer96 should be getting paid for his travel time from home to workplace IF he must pick up his trailer before heading off to the job site. If this pre-job-site travel time increases his work time to over 40 hours or 8 hours or whatever, I would assume there would be overtime pay due dfer06.

I am not talking about commute time to a job site, in other words. The commute time could be compensated if it is longer than a normal commute - but Pennsylvania does not define what a "normal" commute is (at least I couldn't find a definition).

Again, I am just basing this on internet research, what dfer96 has disclosed of his situation in his post, and nothing more. I DO see from the internet research, though, that more information is probably needed from dfer96 before any definitive answer can be provided. But then, I tend to hate definitive answers as a rule.

At any rate, I certainly understand your reading of his post and I can understand your response to his post and, if dfer96 ever returns to clarify, I would not be at all surprised to find that your answer is the correct one for his situation.

 

[LdiJ]

I have nothing but respect for you, Q, but there is nothing in the OP's post that suggests he is talking about overnight travel, and he hasn't described anything that's any worse than my regular weekly commute - and I work in the same office every day. I will grant that my commute is longer than most, but mine is not the longest one even in my office suite, let alone through my employer.

Certainly there's been enough discussion here so that he will know what to say if he's left out facts I should be considering. And I do agree that the best resource for him is the DLI. However, I've reread the OP several times, and until or unless he comes back and says he omitted details about the travel, I stand by my answer. If he does, I am happy to reconsider.

He did say that travel time could be as much as 20 hours a week, which would tend to be indicative of distant cities, even if not overnights. Therefore I do think that it opens the door for the time being potentially compensable...or at least worthy of further exploration. I do hope that the OP comes back and clarifies.

 

[cbg]

As I said, I spend 20 hours a week just getting to and from Cambridge from my home, and I don't even have the longest commute in the office.

So no, I do not agree that necessarily reflects "distant cities".