Contesting a will

[justalayman]

So far the only thing you said remaining in the estate was the condo.


Regarding the ladybird deed. It is not new. It is a type of life estate deed: an enhanced life estate deed. I don't know what "form" you think she was supposed to file but the deed would be delivered to the grantee (presuming that is your brother) who would record it. The fact it was not recorded does not invalidate it.

So, it sounds like even the condo probably will not be dealt with through probate.

 

[Delores 22]

Are you and your brother both mentioned in the will as beneficiaries? Are there other beneficiaries named in it?

If brother told you he was going to "negotiate" with you, that statement is made out of ignorance or perhaps a deliberate misrepresentation. The law is going to determine what each person gets, not a negotiation, which is why you need to take anything that your brother or his attorney tells you with a grain of salt. You need to at least have an initial consultation with a probate attorney (the first hour or two of consultation is generally free or very inexpensive) to get professional advice about what your course of action should be.

I have one more question. Is it possible to find out what stocks he owns by looking at his tax forms? Wouldn't that show the stocks he owns without hiring a forensic accountant or private eye? If he's being honest, he wouldn't be worried about showing me unless he's not being honest.

 

[Delores 22]

So far the only thing you said remaining in the estate was the condo.


Regarding the ladybird deed. It is not new. It is a type of life estate deed: an enhanced life estate deed. I don't know what "form" you think she was supposed to file but the deed would be delivered to the grantee (presuming that is your brother) who would record it. The fact it was not recorded does not invalidate it.

So, it sounds like even the condo probably will not be dealt with through probate.

He told me he was handling it through an estate lawyer. The lawyer emailed me and I also spoke to him briefly on the phone, so I know it in a lawyer's hands.

 

[justalayman]

That's all well and good but all that may be Happening is validating the deed.

 

[commentator]

I agree that you may want to talk to an estate attorney yourself as has been suggested. But frankly, it is sounding like you don't have much of a case for contesting anything. If she actually put everything in your brother's name, the deed is already done.

Meantime, I so much understand, and figure that my mother and your mother must've been related! My brother probably plundered a great deal of money that should've been shared between us. My mother wrote a new will disowning me about three times a year, while I was her principal caregiver, and brother stood in the background waiting to inherit. When she passed on, I had to move on. Yes, he got the money, but I kept my self respect.

The more time I spent trying to figure out how much he got, how much he cheated me out of (he knew our mother was crazy too!) the sicker it made me. If you want to be miserable, hate somebody.

It was, sadly, her intention, there was no "undue influence" to be shown. She was in as much of a "right mind" as she ever got in. Yes, she was mentally unstable, but there's also such a thing as being plain old mean, and that's not something that they can treat or that you can contest.

I suggest you get some good counseling, as you have been in this familial mess for a long time, you have collected a lot of hurt feelings and old pains, and now is the first opportunity you have had to walk away clean.

Even if you can't get part of the money, you can move forward yourself and not spend a whole lot of your thought processes and peace of mind dealing with this person who is upsetting you from beyond the grave, just as she hoped to. There just isn't that much money in the world.

 

[Delores 22]

I agree that you may want to talk to an estate attorney yourself as has been suggested. But frankly, it is sounding like you don't have much of a case for contesting anything. If she actually put everything in your brother's name, the deed is already done.

Meantime, I so much understand, and figure that my mother and your mother must've been related! My brother probably plundered a great deal of money that should've been shared between us. My mother wrote a new will disowning me about three times a year, while I was her principal caregiver, and brother stood in the background waiting to inherit. When she passed on, I had to move on. Yes, he got the money, but I kept my self respect.

The more time I spent trying to figure out how much he got, how much he cheated me out of (he knew our mother was crazy too!) the sicker it made me. If you want to be miserable, hate somebody.

It was, sadly, her intention, there was no "undue influence" to be shown. She was in as much of a "right mind" as she ever got in. Yes, she was mentally unstable, but there's also such a thing as being plain old mean, and that's not something that they can treat or that you can contest.

I suggest you get some good counseling, as you have been in this familial mess for a long time, you have collected a lot of hurt feelings and old pains, and now is the first opportunity you have had to walk away clean.

Even if you can't get part of the money, you can move forward yourself and not spend a whole lot of your thought processes and peace of mind dealing with this person who is upsetting you from beyond the grave, just as she hoped to. There just isn't that much money in the world.

Thanks very much for your message. Sorry to hear you had to go through a similar ordeal. Amazing how blood relatives can be so hateful. I know I was the best daughter I could be. I'm sure they think the same about themselves though. Hopefully, I'll get over this feeling of "surrealism" I'm going through like you did. Someone asked my mother what her last wishes are. She said she wants her son and daughter to get along.

I found an old note I wrote to myself (to remember details) My brother told me she wrote more than one will and if he has to show them to me I won't even get half the condo that he offered. Obviously, they planned this out very thoroughly years ago and didn't say a word to me. THAT'S academy award winning acting, but also sounds like malicious intentions since the first (and only) will I saw, sent to me by my brother's estate lawyer, was seemed flimsy.

I don't hate either of them. I see them as vicious, dumb little kids who misbehave. It did frustrate me that I rarely got through to them (and I'm glad I had someone understanding I could vent to when things got rough). I suppose it's good that your mother at least warned you several times a year. Why did you stick around?

 

[commentator]

In martial arts, they say you "bow the belt." That means you respect the rank they hold, even if you do not appreciate them personally. I think it is important to acknowledge the position this person occupies in your life, even if you can't respect the person. I have struggled, and believe me, I looked for grounds to walk completely away from my family of origin. But I believe that taking care of our parents is part of the life work we have to do, whether it is appreciated or not. My mother was always, first and foremost, her own worst enemy and made herself far more miserable than she ever made me or anyone else. My brother would not have cared for my mother adequately. That was his nature. And I believe that I came out by far the winner, though as my husband likes to point out, my brother got the $$$ . Which was the only important thing to him, as it was to her. Honestly, in a family mess like this, contesting the will is like touching the tar baby, the more you hit at it, the more gummed up your life gets.

 

[Dandy Don]

Don't waste money on a forensic accountant. It appears that your mother did not like you very much or perhaps she was an unhappy, miserable person and took out her frustrations on other people. She obviously favored your brother and left her possessions to whomever she wanted to, which was her choice. You would not win in a legal battle about these assets. Your brother has no obligation to show you the value of a gift of stock that was given to him.

 

[Zigner]

Personally, if I were in the same position, I'd speak to an attorney to confirm the validity of a scribbled, marked-up, crossed-out will.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

You can certainly try to verify the will is valid. It sounds as if it is. Usually the reason for contesting is that you were not mentioned, which you were or that it was not made in conformance with state law.

 

[Proserpina]

According to my doc, who knows the situation very well, she was mentally ill, but it wasn't obvious, like hallucinations or Alzheimer's so it wasn't visible to outsiders except a few who experienced her irrationality (head games).

I question the ethics and ability of your "doc".

Perhaps you should, too.

Unless, of course, your representation isn't quite accurate.

 

[Zigner]

Furthermore - being "mentally ill" (is that an actual diagnosis?) doesn't necessarily render a person incompetent to create their own will.

 

[Delores 22]

In martial arts, they say you "bow the belt." That means you respect the rank they hold, even if you do not appreciate them personally. I think it is important to acknowledge the position this person occupies in your life, even if you can't respect the person. I have struggled, and believe me, I looked for grounds to walk completely away from my family of origin. But I believe that taking care of our parents is part of the life work we have to do, whether it is appreciated or not. My mother was always, first and foremost, her own worst enemy and made herself far more miserable than she ever made me or anyone else. My brother would not have cared for my mother adequately. That was his nature. And I believe that I came out by far the winner, though as my husband likes to point out, my brother got the $$$ . Which was the only important thing to him, as it was to her. Honestly, in a family mess like this, contesting the will is like touching the tar baby, the more you hit at it, the more gummed up your life gets.

Your message was invaluable. Shows the value of character in understanding an extremely difficult situation. Chances are I'll follow suit *because* I don't believe in suing family. My brother felt more like my child than my sibling. Same with my mother.

I doubt many mothers would sue their children, but I'm not sure the reverse is true, but who knows? Would make for interesting research though.

I *do* understand the Tar Baby analogy, for sure.

Again, thanks!

 

[Delores 22]

Don't waste money on a forensic accountant. It appears that your mother did not like you very much or perhaps she was an unhappy, miserable person and took out her frustrations on other people. She obviously favored your brother and left her possessions to whomever she wanted to, which was her choice. You would not win in a legal battle about these assets. Your brother has no obligation to show you the value of a gift of stock that was given to him.

To my knowledge, accountants can go back a number of years to find out when stock was transferred. Not sure though, so you may be right.

 

[Delores 22]

Personally, if I were in the same position, I'd speak to an attorney to confirm the validity of a scribbled, marked-up, crossed-out will.

I did, several days ago. He asked for a copy of the will so I faxed and emailed him a copy. Haven't heard back even though I emailed again last night asking when I'd hear back from him.

Can he look it over and not reply back? That seems terribly inconsiderate, but I guess he has no obligation to do so, albeit heartless.