Generation-skipping Trust

[Kingwould496]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Connecticut

I am one of four equal beneficiaries of a generation skipping trust set up by my grandmother, who passed away several years ago. While she was still alive, each of the four grandchildren received gifts or funds from the trust that related to education. Mine came in the form of musical instruments to the tune of $10,000.

I have since become a working professional musician, and would like to sell the instruments purchased by the trust in order to purchase instruments that I feel are more appropriate for my professional career, as well as additional instruments intended to be restored and re-sold for profit. This is, of course, not the original intention of the gift, though it is closely related to it.

I have been told by my mother that I do not have the right to sell, exchange, or profit from these instruments except in performance, without the express consent of the trustees and other beneficiaries, and that the other beneficiaries could take legal action against me if I do so (though I know they wouldn't do that!) I am confused as to who actually owns the instruments, and what I would have to do in order to obtain ownership of the instruments, as owning the tools necessary for my livelihood is important to me.

I've also been told that I have no right to speak with a trustee or obtain a copy of the trust, and that only my mother and aunt have that right. Recent research has suggested that I do in fact have a right to see it, and that the gifts from the trust in the form of musical instruments are my property to do with as I please. But I thought it would be best to to just ask. The instruments have actually been exchanged several times since the original purchase, but never without the express consent of my mother (and supposedly the trustee), and never with any intention to improve upon them and resell them for profit.

I suspect that the trust is being used dishonestly as a means of control by my overbearing mother.... Is it possible that what I've been told is fully honest and above board? Or is there simply no way that the instruments are anything but my property? Is there such a thing as a trust that does not allow an adult beneficiary knowledge of the terms, or direct contact with a trustee?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Connecticut

I am one of four equal beneficiaries of a generation skipping trust set up by my grandmother, who passed away several years ago. While she was still alive, each of the four grandchildren received gifts or funds from the trust that related to education. Mine came in the form of musical instruments to the tune of $10,000.

I have since become a working professional musician, and would like to sell the instruments purchased by the trust in order to purchase instruments that I feel are more appropriate for my professional career, as well as additional instruments intended to be restored and re-sold for profit. This is, of course, not the original intention of the gift, though it is closely related to it.

I have been told by my mother that I do not have the right to sell, exchange, or profit from these instruments except in performance, without the express consent of the trustees and other beneficiaries, and that the other beneficiaries could take legal action against me if I do so (though I know they wouldn't do that!) I am confused as to who actually owns the instruments, and what I would have to do in order to obtain ownership of the instruments, as owning the tools necessary for my livelihood is important to me.

Its not impossible for a trust to have a provision such as that in it, but its highly unlikely. That would be a pretty weirdly written trust.

I've also been told that I have no right to speak with a trustee or obtain a copy of the trust, and that only my mother and aunt have that right.

That, for sure, is a fib.

Recent research has suggested that I do in fact have a right to see it, and that the gifts from the trust in the form of musical instruments are my property to do with as I please. But I thought it would be best to to just ask. The instruments have actually been exchanged several times since the original purchase, but never without the express consent of my mother (and supposedly the trustee), and never with any intention to improve upon them and resell them for profit.

It is quite likely that they are your property to do with as you please.

I suspect that the trust is being used dishonestly as a means of control by my overbearing mother.... Is it possible that what I've been told is fully honest and above board? Or is there simply no way that the instruments are anything but my property? Is there such a thing as a trust that does not allow an adult beneficiary knowledge of the terms, or direct contact with a trustee?

Again, the first part is possible although highly unlikely, the second part is definitely a fib.

 

[Proserpina]

Its not impossible for a trust to have a provision such as that in it, but its highly unlikely. That would be a pretty weirdly written trust.



That, for sure, is a fib.



It is quite likely that they are your property to do with as you please.



Again, the first part is possible although highly unlikely, the second part is definitely a fib.

Agreed. And the part about not being able to speak to the trustee? Translated: I'm lying and if you contact the trustee I'm busted.

 

[tranquility]

I agree with the others, you are being lied to. Most likely as a method of controlling your actions through the trust.

I don't know all areas on which you are being lied to as some things you were told could be true. Most, probably not. I'd step up and start demanding some things. Your risk is there may be some discretion on the part of the trustee and you could be cut off from the discretionary portions.

 

[Kingwould496]

update

Thanks for all the replies. You've all been extremely helpful.

I've written to my mother to request a copy of the trust, only to receive an angry response stating that it is "in a language I wouldn't understand" (English, I presume) and that she is "the beneficiary of the trust in this generation" and that I am only the "remainder beneficiary." She also states that my viewing the trust documentation would not be legal, as it would be an invasion of her privacy.

Upon speaking with my father (not involved with the trust at all) he concurs that I do not have a right to view the trust, and that he has heard trust officers and bank officials state that the language of the trust does not warrant my viewing the documentation.

I am confused about who the trust beneficiaries actually are. I have heard my mother refer to herself as an "interim beneficiary," and she has said many times that my sister and I are only entitled to what, "if anything" is left over upon her death. But I am certain that they refer to the trust as a generation-skipping trust, and that it was set up by my grandmother. Is it possible that my great-grandmother's generation-skipping trust and my grandmother's generation-skipping trust are all tied together into one large trust, thereby making my mother and aunt "current" beneficiaries?

And then there is still the only matter I actually care about, my musical instruments. I have made it clear that I will do what I please with them until a police officer arrives at my door. But I'm am still being fed the idea that ownership of the instruments is a "gray area" and that, though they were gifts to me, (as in NOT a loan) I am still under the authority of the trust and trustees as to what I do with them and how I profit from them, and that I must answer to the original intention of that gift. The original intention of the gift was educational, and my education is over. My sister and cousins received gifts in the form of tuition, books, etc.

Basically, I am willing to do whatever I must to obtain ownership of the instruments, but am being told that I am not allowed to "purchase" them from myself and put the money back into the trust, and I am not allowed to act as if they are my own personal property with no strings attached, meaning I would have to simply leave them in a closet and purchase new ones in order to achieve what I want. This would be a shame since I really like the ones I have.

I have little legal knowledge, but as I understand it, ownership is not a gray area in the United States. Right???

 

[Kingwould496]

Update 2

Ok, further developments:

Mom is irate that I suggested dishonesty on her part. States that my "actions, demands, accusations are unethical, intentionally hurtful and threatening," and she is "turning this matter over to the trustees and bank's legal counsel for further guidance."

My question now is whether I need to be taking any protective action, like getting my own lawyer? Can anyone definitively tell me what my rights are? Can my instruments or profits earned from those instruments or improvements/sale of those instruments be taken from me? Can I be removed as a trust beneficiary due to claims by my mother that I am unethical and threatening?

Am I wrong to suspect some kind of foul play with the trust funds? There has to be a reason I am being refused the right to view the trust documentation, and I'm wondering if it has something to do with the amount of money she is using from the trust.

Do I actually have an undeniable right to view the trust documentation and have the matter of the musical instruments explained to me by a trustee or other official?

 

[LdiJ]

Ok, further developments:

Mom is irate that I suggested dishonesty on her part. States that my "actions, demands, accusations are unethical, intentionally hurtful and threatening," and she is "turning this matter over to the trustees and bank's legal counsel for further guidance."

It really sounds as though your mother is being either dishonest or overly controlling in some way.

My question now is whether I need to be taking any protective action, like getting my own lawyer? Can anyone definitively tell me what my rights are? Can my instruments or profits earned from those instruments or improvements/sale of those instruments be taken from me? Can I be removed as a trust beneficiary due to claims by my mother that I am unethical and threatening?

The instruments are yours. They cannot be taken away from you. No policeman is going to show up at your door. You cannot be removed as a beneficiary from a trust unless the trust is revocable by the original grantor. If the original grantor is deceased, the trust is irrevocable.

Am I wrong to suspect some kind of foul play with the trust funds? There has to be a reason I am being refused the right to view the trust documentation, and I'm wondering if it has something to do with the amount of money she is using from the trust.

Do I actually have an undeniable right to view the trust documentation and have the matter of the musical instruments explained to me by a trustee or other official?

If you are a beneficiary, you have the right to view the trust and speak to the trustee. If you are not a beneficiary, you don't. I would stop discussing the instruments with anybody at all, and just do whatever you want/need to do with them.

 

[tranquility]

It really sounds as though your mother is being either dishonest or overly controlling in some way.



The instruments are yours. They cannot be taken away from you. No policeman is going to show up at your door. You cannot be removed as a beneficiary from a trust unless the trust is revocable by the original grantor. If the original grantor is deceased, the trust is irrevocable.



If you are a beneficiary, you have the right to view the trust and speak to the trustee. If you are not a beneficiary, you don't. I would stop discussing the instruments with anybody at all, and just do whatever you want/need to do with them.

I generally agree, but believe one's rights to view the parts of the trust that relate to the specific beneficiary only may arise when they become ripe. A contingent or successor beneficiary might not have the right until the contingency occurs.

 

[tranquility]

By the way, there is a PROFOUND difference in what one may or may not do between:

I am one of four equal beneficiaries of a generation skipping trust set up by my grandmother, who passed away several years ago.

and:

I've written to my mother to request a copy of the trust, only to receive an angry response stating that it is "in a language I wouldn't understand" (English, I presume) and that she is "the beneficiary of the trust in this generation" and that I am only the "remainder beneficiary."

 

[Kingwould496]

By the way, there is a PROFOUND difference in what one may or may not do between:
and:

So how might I go about finding out whether I am a "remainder beneficiary" or a regular(?) beneficiary? And what is the profound difference between the two? How can I be informed of which I am?

I've heard lots of talk over the years of this being a generation-skipping trust. I am sure that's what it is. I've also heard talk of restrictions on what my mother and aunt are allowed to take from it.

In any case, am I not at least entitled to see proof of whether or not I own the instruments, and any restrictions on what I am allowed to do with them, regardless of what kind of beneficiary I am?

 

[tranquility]

You can get an attorney and sue the trust and find out in discovery.

 

[TrustUser]

i am suspicious, since things dont add up.

even if we assume that the mother is the sole beneficiary, with the 4 kids as contingents - most parents would be willing to show a trust document to their own kid, who is a contingent beneficiary.

if nothing else, the first page which will have the main statement of the trust, and the beneficiary portion, which names them.

the very fact that she is not at least willing to show the op this, tells me that she is likely hiding something.

if it actually is a generation-skipping trust with mom just as trustee, and the 4 kids as current benes, then mom is acting illegally - since the kids do have a legal right to see the trust, at that point.

what about the other 3 kids ? i havent heard any input about what they think.

 

[Kingwould496]

By the way, there is a PROFOUND difference in what one may or may not do between:
and:

i am suspicious, since things dont add up.

even if we assume that the mother is the sole beneficiary, with the 4 kids as contingents - most parents would be willing to show a trust document to their own kid, who is a contingent beneficiary.

if nothing else, the first page which will have the main statement of the trust, and the beneficiary portion, which names them.

the very fact that she is not at least willing to show the op this, tells me that she is likely hiding something.

if it actually is a generation-skipping trust with mom just as trustee, and the 4 kids as current benes, then mom is acting illegally - since the kids do have a legal right to see the trust, at that point.

what about the other 3 kids ? i havent heard any input about what they think.

Sorry, it seems I've been unclear. The trust was set up by my grandmother. Her two daughters (my mother and aunt) are equal "interim beneficiaries" with rights to access certain funds from the trust. (At least that's what I've been told.) My sister, two cousins, and I are four equal beneficiaries (possibly contingent beneficiaries?) who will receive the trust funds in full upon the deaths of our respective mothers, but are able to receive some funds under certain guidelines in the meantime. So far those funds have always been towards education of some description.

I don't believe my mother is a trustee. My mother and aunt have made it a point to actively prevent any of us four beneficiaries from ever having access to the trust documentation or contact with a trustee. I don't even know the trustee's name, let alone how to contact them.

I have recently learned that the trust was "split" some years ago so that each daughter (and their two children) have a separate trust.

My sister of course thinks my mother is nuts, and has no issue with whatever I choose to do with my instruments. As I understand it, the two cousins have no vested interest in our trust.

 

[tranquility]

If you are actually receiving distributions from the trust, you are a beneficiary and have a right to see at the portion of the trust that concerns you. If mom gets a distribution that is gifted to you or has the right to loan you something under certain circumstances, that could be different.

How did you get a distribution from the trust without knowing the trustee?

Frankly, that is just a rhetorical question. It really will not shed any light. See an attorney.

 

[Kingwould496]

How did you get a distribution from the trust without knowing the trustee?

I was a minor at the time, and had no direct contact with my own finances, which were handled by my mother. The original purchase was ten years ago.

At this point it seems all I can do is continue doing what I see fit with my instruments, and just shut up about it. I can't afford an attorney at this time, and don't even really want to know what kind of money may be coming to me in future, or what kind of sinister crap is going on behind my back. I don't feel any entitlement to anything except my instruments, and from what everyone has said, I am fully entitled to do with them what I see fit.