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Grandfather died 6yrs ago and his 2nd wife still has not paid out his Living Trust?

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carfire

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

My grandfather died 6 years ago. Prior to his death, he took me aside and informed me that I was one of 6 beneficiaries of his living trust, and that I would receive $10,000 or at the time of his death.

He also said that if my father or my aunt were to precede him in death, (my father did end up passing before him =/), that my father's share, which grandpa said was "substantially" more", would be split up among the remaining beneficiaries. The beneficiaries he specifically named to me were myself and my half-sister. I'm assuming my father and my aunt (grandpa's daughter), my one surviving cousin, and his second wife are the other four.

Grandpa was very clear that the payouts would be at the time of his death, and not at the time of death of his second wife, who is still alive. He also said that his second wife had been well provided for. At that time, he also had me sign paperwork so that if his second wife were to pass before him, I would be the one who would have to make any decisions, should he end up incapacitated or on life support.

Well, shortly after that, my father died penniless, from drug use, and Grandpa's health went into a rapid decline, obviously from losing his son. He died in November of 2005, and to this day, nobody has received a thing from his estate.

I have inquired to his second wife, who many people believed, in the years prior to his death, was a gold-digger, as to what happened to the living trust, and she has remained dodgy and virtually mute on the subject. Nobody but her had contact with Grandpa's lawyer after his death. Even my aunt, grandpa's own daughter, has had no word, or received anything, which I know is severely against what my grandpa told me.

Meanwhile, has been traveling, shopping, buying new vehicles, enjoying the two houses that grandpa bought for her, in addition to starting to date another well-off elderly man, shortly after my grandpa's death. My grandpa, was also the second older man that she had been married to that had passed away. So I thinks its reasonable to think that there is a pattern there.

My grandpa was in in hospice for the last year of his life, and suffered from increasing dementia during his time there. Because a living trust is private, neither myself, nor any of the other beneficiaries have been able to determine what has happened. His second wife, offers no information, and seems to be be pretty smug about it.

In an attempt to circumvent her silence, I did finally contact grandpa's lawyer, and explained the situation, but he told me that only grandpa's second wife has the right to the knowledge of his estate. His lawyer had been out of practice for some years after grandpa's death, so I was unable to achieve any contact with him, until he returned to practice in the last couple years.

I had thought his return to practice was fortunate, and that it would finally give us some answers, such as the potential to find out if grandpa's second wife had committed fraud. However, it just proved to be another dead end.

I am concerned that grandpa's second wife got him to sign something in his diminished mental state, and somehow wrested power away from him. Grandpa had told me that the living trust was ironclad, but that certainly does not seem to be the case.

I am really at wits end, and I have no idea how to pursue this. Are we totally screwed? Could his second wife have really stolen everything, and if so, is there any recourse? As the executor of his trust, can she just refuse to pay us? Can she make us wait until she dies?

How can I find out if the trust was changed? Because I have visited the hospice and confirmed that there are medical records of Grandpa's dementia, so if anything was changed during that time, I would be able to determine if any fraud was committed. Any direction would be much appreciated.
 


curb1

Senior Member
Did Grandpa have any real estate (houses/land)? You can check with your courthouse to see how the property was titled. You will be able to find out if it was titled in the first trust to which you refer. You could also tell if the property was re-titled at a later date when grandpa was ill. How exactly is his property titled? What kind of assets did Grandpa have?

You should ask the "lawyer" if the original "living trust" is still in effect? He may, or may not, answer that question.
 
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carfire

Junior Member
Yes, Grandpa had two houses, plus a large piece of expensive view property near his old farm. I do not know how they were titled. How do I ask the courthouse for information on them? Do I provide the property address and submit a form to request titling information?

When I spoke to grandpa's lawyer, on the phone, he said there was a living trust, but that only grandpa's wife had access to further information.

At one point, grandpa's second wife become angry when talking to me about my aunt, and stated that until she died, my aunt would not get a damn thing. I tried to ask her what that meant, but she collected herself and wouldn't reveal any further information.

Would I need to bring the trust to probate by filing a petition, in order to find out what is going on?
 

curb1

Senior Member
You will learn a lot by going to the courthouse. They will direct you to the proper department in your courthouse. The Tax collector or clerk's office should help you. You might call for the information, but if you go there you can get copies showing the ownership history and how it is titled. The dates of when it was titled in the name of the trust is important and when it might have been changed. You will need the addresses of these properties.

Do you have a copy of the trust? There is a chance that this trust was recorded at the courthouse, also. It didn't have to be recorded, but sometimes people do have their trusts recorded.

It sounds like the "wife" is the trustee of the trust.

When you asked her if you were involved as a beneficiary listed on the trust, what did she say?
 

justalayman

Senior Member
When I spoke to grandpa's lawyer, on the phone, he said there was a living trust, but that only grandpa's wife had access to further information.
that is code for: you are not a named beneficiary of the trust nor is anybody else other than the 2nd wife.

Would I need to bring the trust to probate by filing a petition, in order to find out what is going on?
a trust is not subject to probate.

You can do an initial review of the land records at the register of deeds office. While that in itself may not give you a complete record of the situation concerning the land, if you can understand what you are reading, it should give you a general knowledge of who owned the property and when and to whom it was transferred. If you don't understand it, you would need to hire a lawyer or a title company to provide you an abstract of title.
 

carfire

Junior Member
Grandpa would have never willingly taken his entire family off of the living trust, so if we are no longer listed as beneficiaries, that means that the wife had a hand in it.

If she got him to sign anything to remove us, after he was recorded to have dementia, I would think we would have some recourse as far as proving she fraudulently changed things.

I have made an appointment with an attorney, and I also got records from the courthouse showing that his main house was transferred to the family living trust in 1997, and that document is signed by both him and his wife. There are no records of title change on the house since then.
 

curb1

Senior Member
Have you seen the trust? You are witnessing the vulnerability of "living trusts" when a trustee is unscrupulous. She can drain the trust and the problem might not be found until she dies. You are correct in checking with an attorney, however you should have started this six years ago.
 

carfire

Junior Member
I wanted start it after the first year had gone by, but nobody knew who grandpa's attorney was, and his wife refused to divulge that information.

It took me some time and a bit of luck to find the attorney, only by that time, he had quit practicing, and was living in Europe, and I could not get his personal contact information from his former office.

He didn't return to practice until last year. I happened to find out by chance when I made a delivery to a dentist, that turned out to be the attorney's son. He told me his father was practicing again, and so I was able to renew the search for information. The attorney's first retirement was very unfortunate timing and cost the family 4 years of being stuck in the dark.

I am also aware that living trust are not automatically subject to probate, but I have been told I can petition to bring it to probate. I have been told it could also be that the living trust is in proper effect, and that she has simply refused to uphold her responsibility to disperse it, in hopes that the family will give up, or never be able to do anything about it.
 

carfire

Junior Member
The only paperwork I can honestly remember seeing is the paperwork I signed to be responsible for his decisions, should his wife pass away before him. I know he had other legal papers, but I cannot distinctly remember what they were.

Grandpa was a lifelong businessman, very organized, and an upstanding man, so it never occurred to me that there would be any issue with any if this when he told me the details and explained the living trust to me.
 

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