Hiding Assets/Avoiding estate tax questions

[ebusch]

Iowa...Grandmother is asking me to find solutions to her problem. Grandfather is becoming increasingly unmanageable for her. She is worried that he will have to be placed in a home, thus eating away most or all of her assets. We are currently searching for ideas to help hide her assets. We have come up with gifting her 401k for family members at a rate of 13,000 per person per year, which we have discussed giving back to her immediately to be placed into a safe or safe deposit box or some other secure place to avoid taxation. Also we have discussed selling her home, placing that money into an bank account, and having her draw lump sums of less than 10,000 a number of times and claiming this money as gambling loss or some other loss. I'm aware that this is likely unethical, possibly illegal, hence my search for counsel. I want to make it clear that I stand nothing to gain from this as her grandchild, as I have been ridiculed on other sites as being greedy and nosey and so on. I am simply looking for good ideas that may help her salvage her life's savings. All advice, or ideas are welcome.

 

[anteater]

Scout out elder law attorneys in grandmother's area and provide her a list.

 

[cyjeff]

This site will not now nor will it ever help you commit fraud.

What you are suggesting is fraud.

Goodbye now.

 

[ebusch]

I was simply asking whether these ideas are legal or in fact illegal fraud and for other possible ideas that may help with the situation. I am not looking for personal opinion or commentary which is irrelevant.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Fraud is something done to intentionally subvert assets illegally.

A structured "impoverishment" plan, is an estate plan which seeks to pre-plan the potential for future catastrophic illness and carry out a persons desire to allow family members to inherit prematurely. There are specific laws, such as IRS gifting laws which must be followed to avoid a fraudulent outcome.

 

[ebusch]

I'm aware of the gifting laws...what I'm asking for is confirmation that she can sell all of her assets and gift 13,000 per family member for several years until she has no trace of the assets and that this would be completely legal...correct?

 

[anteater]

The tile of your post states "...estate tax questions." The body of your post seems to suggest that this quest is somehow related to qualifying for Medicaid assistance. Which is it?

I would suggest that, if your grandparents have enough money to have concerns about either, then they have enough money to afford to consult with an attorney with elder law experience in Iowa.

In the meantime, you might at least familiarize yourself by perusing a site like:

http://www.elderlawanswers.com/


Amateur solutions will lead to amateurish results.

(By the way, a gift that carries with it an implicit agreement of "..giving back to her immediately..." is not a gift.)

 

[ebusch]

I was under the impression that the title of this web site was "free advice." I obviously am not familiar with this situation otherwise I would not be asking for free advice. I am aware that an actual attorney will yield actual results, but I was looking for free advice. I'm attempting to find alternative methods to save money for my grandmother, which I would think could be discussed...legal, illegal, ethical or otherwise. I need only information and relevant advice and info. Not personal thoughts, criticisms, concerns. I am not going to break the law, but I will recommend any and all means to my grandmother which may yield positive results.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

OP, no one here is going to counsel you on how to commit fraud.

We have, if you investigate within our posts, given you directions on how to get estate planning information, via the web, for grandma to structure her desires legally, in advance of a major medical event.

 

[anteater]

If you are indeed talking about Medicaid planning (but you aren't even answering a straight forward question if that is the concern), then:

1) It is a complex subject, particularly when a married couple is involved.

2) Any "solutions" are highly dependent upon knowing all the financial details about the people involved. For all you and we know, grandmother may think she has a problem, based upon stories she has heard, when she does not actually have a problem.

3) Medicaid planning has to start years before a need arises. A last minute flurry of dubious transactions can end in disaster.

And, even if you knew any of the details, described the situation adequately, and could articulate the questions, at most, you might receive some suggestions for things that your grandmother might take a look at.

 

[Free_Advice]

This site will not now nor will it ever help you commit fraud.

What you are suggesting is fraud.

Goodbye now.

I don't think so. I understand what the OP is trying to do. Go seek out a lawyer to help you; these things get very complicated.

 

[Free_Advice]

I was simply asking whether these ideas are legal or in fact illegal fraud and for other possible ideas that may help with the situation. I am not looking for personal opinion or commentary which is irrelevant.

Instead of the word HIDING if the word PROTECTING was used you would not have gotten such comments. I understand you are trying to protect your mama's assets, not hide them.

Its possible that you cannot do anything in IA to protect them they way you want; in FL maybe...a lawyer in IA should be able to answer the various states ..

 

[Zigner]

Instead of the word HIDING if the word PROTECTING was used you would not have gotten such comments. I understand you are trying to protect your mama's assets, not hide them.

Bull...

The OP specifically wants to HIDE assets. His "plan" is for GMa "give away" money and then have the recipients give the money BACK to GMa so it can be hidden in a safe deposit box. That CLEARLY shows the OP's intent.

Here's the EXACT quote from the OP:

We have come up with gifting her 401k for family members at a rate of 13,000 per person per year, which we have discussed giving back to her immediately to be placed into a safe or safe deposit box or some other secure place to avoid taxation.

THEN the OP straight-out suggests that GMa should commit tax fraud:

Also we have discussed selling her home, placing that money into an bank account, and having her draw lump sums of less than 10,000 a number of times and claiming this money as gambling loss or some other loss.

The OP wants to HIDE assets. This isn't about "protection".

 

[Free_Advice]

Bull...

The OP specifically wants to HIDE assets. His "plan" is for GMa "give away" money and then have the recipients give the money BACK to GMa so it can be hidden in a safe deposit box. That CLEARLY shows the OP's intent.
.

If that's the OP's intent, I don't think the OP would be posting. Yes yes, I saw what the OP wrote. Nothing wrong with discussing things. Me thinks you see stuff that is not really as intended.

 

[Isis1]

If that's the OP's intent, I don't think the OP would be posting. Yes yes, I saw what the OP wrote. Nothing wrong with discussing things. Me thinks you see stuff that is not really as intended.

We can only go by what the OP clearly stated. Which is to hide assets. Which is illegal. OP should take granny to an attorney to view her legal options. In a legal manner.