My grandfather and grandmother recently passed away in Texas. My father being the only successful sibling in a family of five was chosen by my grandfather to be the executor of his will. When he passed my grandmother was still living but suffering from dementia (she would go in and out of time of awareness). My father (being responsible) tried to set up a trust for his mother so that other family members would not use her for the remaining money she had. He was sued and the trust blocked by the rest of his siblings and they no longer speak with him. My grandmother has recently passed away (12/09/11) and we have searched for the public records of her will probate but have found nothing. We are now assuming that my aunt (and grandmother) had her will rewritten and put in the necessary steps to skip the probate process. My dad is too proud to call the lawyer who they filed the paperwork with to inquire about any will she may have done at the time, but my mother believes that my brother and I are listed in the will. Is there anything that we can do to find this paperwork even though it may not be public record because they skipped the probate process? My legal knowledge is very limited but would love some more guidence about the next steps to take.
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How to find out what was listed in a will
- Thread starter cmk2012
- Start date
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Were there any assets left after bills were paid? Did they have any real estate? You can check at the courthouse to see how that is titled. You can go to the courthouse to see if anything was filed with probate court. Were there any bank accounts? What did grandparents have that you think was passed to someone? What was listed in the trust that they had?
What was in the will?
What was in the will?
No idea if there was a will or what was listed in it
Yes. Once my grandfather died all assets (property, real estate) were either sold or given away with all siblings in agreement. The total of the estate that my father tried to set up a trust for was about $600,000. My father and one aunt were the only siblings with access to any bank accounts. Once my father tried to set up the trust so that only an attorney and my grandmother would have access too he was sued by 3 of his 4 siblings for access to the money. Not wanting to fight my father just gave them the money and gave up his rights as a decision maker for his mother’s estate. At this point we were effectively cut off from the family. The will was changed once we were cut off. My mother was told by my grandmother, one of the few times we spoke to her after this occasion that my brother and I were listed in the will (that was changed after we were cut off) receiving a cash inheritance. I have read in a few places that there are some ways of skipping the probate process in Texas, leaving no publicly filed paperwork. We have no way of knowing what was in the will and most likely the will not try to notify us. We have no idea if there was a trust set up or what is listed in the will after we were cut off. We live 12 hours away from the courthouse any documents would be filed in. Calling and requesting the documents they have told us that nothing has been filed. (We have tried in the 2 counties paperwork may have been filed) Any other steps that we may need to take to find out about what was listed? My father does not want to seem like he is out for money which is the way his parents are trying to portray him. He just wants to make sure that my brother and I are taken care of.
Yes. Once my grandfather died all assets (property, real estate) were either sold or given away with all siblings in agreement. The total of the estate that my father tried to set up a trust for was about $600,000. My father and one aunt were the only siblings with access to any bank accounts. Once my father tried to set up the trust so that only an attorney and my grandmother would have access too he was sued by 3 of his 4 siblings for access to the money. Not wanting to fight my father just gave them the money and gave up his rights as a decision maker for his mother’s estate. At this point we were effectively cut off from the family. The will was changed once we were cut off. My mother was told by my grandmother, one of the few times we spoke to her after this occasion that my brother and I were listed in the will (that was changed after we were cut off) receiving a cash inheritance. I have read in a few places that there are some ways of skipping the probate process in Texas, leaving no publicly filed paperwork. We have no way of knowing what was in the will and most likely the will not try to notify us. We have no idea if there was a trust set up or what is listed in the will after we were cut off. We live 12 hours away from the courthouse any documents would be filed in. Calling and requesting the documents they have told us that nothing has been filed. (We have tried in the 2 counties paperwork may have been filed) Any other steps that we may need to take to find out about what was listed? My father does not want to seem like he is out for money which is the way his parents are trying to portray him. He just wants to make sure that my brother and I are taken care of.
There is a possibility that the cash accounts were set up with one (or all) of your father's siblings as a "pay on death" account. Or that one (or all) of the siblings was named on the account as a co-owner. If this happened, the cash would pass directly to whomever is listed with the accounts. It wouldn't matter who was listed in the will. It is a possibility that there were no remaining assets to probate.
You need to make contact with someone in the family to get some information. You might call the bank that had the accounts to see if you can find out if the account is still active. They probably won't give you any information, however.
Gut feeling is that the money is gone to siblings. How was the suit successful? Was it set up improperly, or what?
You need to make contact with someone in the family to get some information. You might call the bank that had the accounts to see if you can find out if the account is still active. They probably won't give you any information, however.
Gut feeling is that the money is gone to siblings. How was the suit successful? Was it set up improperly, or what?
There are the usual ways of changing accounts to joint ownership with right of survivorship and adding beneficiary designations. Or creating a trust.I have read in a few places that there are some ways of skipping the probate process in Texas, leaving no publicly filed paperwork.
There are also a couple "probate-type" alternatives in Texas - a small estate affidavit and probating the will as a muniment of title - that avoid what would normally be thought of as probate. But, as far as I know, they do not avoid court completely and I would think that there would still be paperwork available at the court.
Then again, there is the possibility that whoever has the will and whoever is nominated to serve as the estate's executor may not have gotten around to submitting the will yet.
Your problem here is that you are on a fishing expedition. You have no idea what may have happened between your father's "exile" and your grandmother's death. If your father's siblings were real schemers, they may have persuaded grandmother to use a trust or joint ownership or beneficiary designations, thus making any will irrelevant.
Do you know if she had any assets whose titles would be available? Like real estate?
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Family has denied us access
We would really have no way of knowing. They did not even speak with us at the funeral. She passed away only 8 months after my Grandfather so we are assuming that they did not use the entire account of $600,000, she was also receiving social security. I would assume that they only way we could have access to finding out how the estate was divided would be through an attorney?
The suit did not go very far because my father did not want to damage the relationships anymore. He felt that he was doing the best thing for his mother by setting up the trust and if they were just going to fight him on it he felt it was not worth it and could not afford to keep paying the attorney fees from his own pocket.
We would really have no way of knowing. They did not even speak with us at the funeral. She passed away only 8 months after my Grandfather so we are assuming that they did not use the entire account of $600,000, she was also receiving social security. I would assume that they only way we could have access to finding out how the estate was divided would be through an attorney?
The suit did not go very far because my father did not want to damage the relationships anymore. He felt that he was doing the best thing for his mother by setting up the trust and if they were just going to fight him on it he felt it was not worth it and could not afford to keep paying the attorney fees from his own pocket.
all real estate were sold under my father
All bills were paid (I assume), my father is the responsible money handler in the family and he paid all her bills before trying to set up the trust. Any real estate was sold by my father once my grandfather had passed away. My grandmother lived with the aunt that the bank account was transferred too once my father gave up his rights.
Thank you both for all the help you have provided. Any further help would be welcome if you can think of anything.
All bills were paid (I assume), my father is the responsible money handler in the family and he paid all her bills before trying to set up the trust. Any real estate was sold by my father once my grandfather had passed away. My grandmother lived with the aunt that the bank account was transferred too once my father gave up his rights.
Perfect explination of the situation. I guess at this point we are "exiled". Basically I just wanted to make them pay. They are all in debt. My parents are fairly well off and have never been in debt. And I am the only grandchild with a college education and a salary. We don't need the money, I just want the satisfaction of making them pay it to me/my father for always being punished for being successful. Horrible thing to say about family but it is the truth.Your problem here is that you are on a fishing expedition. You have no idea what may have happened between your father's "exile" and your grandmother's death. If your father's siblings were real schemers, they may have persuaded grandmother to use a trust or joint ownership or beneficiary designations, thus making any will irrelevant.
Do you know if she had any assets whose titles would be available? Like real estate?
Thank you both for all the help you have provided. Any further help would be welcome if you can think of anything.
Handling of the Bill
Pre exile my father had with the blessings of his siblings had placed my grandmother in a very nice nursing home, which he paid for while he was trying to set up the trust. Once my aunt found out that my father was trying to set up a trust, without any sibilings knowlegde she removed my grandmother from the nursing home and set up hospice. Once it was made know to my father what had happened he did begin to pay her a monthly amount in addition to the social security that was being paid directly to my grandmother. At this point my aunt requested all of the assets to pay for hospice. This is when my father asked for an accounting of all her bills so that he could make a budget for the amount to be paid monthly out of the trust. (he was willing to pay 1/3 of all of my aunts bills, including transportation, because of doctors visit). She was unwilling to provide this information and this is the point were we were exciled and sued.
Pre exile my father had with the blessings of his siblings had placed my grandmother in a very nice nursing home, which he paid for while he was trying to set up the trust. Once my aunt found out that my father was trying to set up a trust, without any sibilings knowlegde she removed my grandmother from the nursing home and set up hospice. Once it was made know to my father what had happened he did begin to pay her a monthly amount in addition to the social security that was being paid directly to my grandmother. At this point my aunt requested all of the assets to pay for hospice. This is when my father asked for an accounting of all her bills so that he could make a budget for the amount to be paid monthly out of the trust. (he was willing to pay 1/3 of all of my aunts bills, including transportation, because of doctors visit). She was unwilling to provide this information and this is the point were we were exciled and sued.
Something seems to be missing. Why would the siblings object to the trust? Why did your Dad propose a trust rather than just having his name on the bank accounts? Why did he try to set up the trust without telling the other siblings, I can understand their suspicions. There must have been problems before or he would have told all of them what he was doing?
Trust Issues
They were fully aware that he was trying to set up the trust. 2 of his siblings have no business making life decisions for others because they are not able to make decsions for themselves (mental illness, knowledge level of a 9th grader). His worries were exactly what happened. He wanted to make sure that the money from my grandfather would allow my grandmother to live a long comfortable life (she only was suffering from extreme memory loss at the time). My family lives 12 hours away he can not be there to manage everything that happens. His siblings unfortunately have never been able to handle money and are all in a vast amount of debt. He was advised that a trust would be the best way to go, with all of the sibilings in attendance. All siblings were on board with the decision (this is where scheming began) until my father returned home to go back to work. This is when she was pulled out of the nursing home and we were sued. I think they realized that they would not be given unrestricted access to her accounts.
Every single dollar is/has been accounted for while my father was in charge of the account.
They were fully aware that he was trying to set up the trust. 2 of his siblings have no business making life decisions for others because they are not able to make decsions for themselves (mental illness, knowledge level of a 9th grader). His worries were exactly what happened. He wanted to make sure that the money from my grandfather would allow my grandmother to live a long comfortable life (she only was suffering from extreme memory loss at the time). My family lives 12 hours away he can not be there to manage everything that happens. His siblings unfortunately have never been able to handle money and are all in a vast amount of debt. He was advised that a trust would be the best way to go, with all of the sibilings in attendance. All siblings were on board with the decision (this is where scheming began) until my father returned home to go back to work. This is when she was pulled out of the nursing home and we were sued. I think they realized that they would not be given unrestricted access to her accounts.
Every single dollar is/has been accounted for while my father was in charge of the account.
If he knows the bank where the accounts were set up he should call them and ask about the account. I would make a guess that if he does nothing the money will soon be gone. Apparently that is OK with him. In situations like this a person needs to be very proactive. There should be some phone calls made in the next 15 minutes. I find it hard to believe that he can't talk to any of his siblings. That is too bad.
family
It is to bad. They only would stare at us at the funeral. If we would not have contacted the funeral home we would have no details. I learned of my grandmothers death through a facebook status update from a distant 2nd cousin. Oh well. Thanks for all your help. My father has no plans of justifying the lies his family has spread about him by seeking the money. My mother just wanted some answers if anything could be done. Thanks for the help!
It is to bad. They only would stare at us at the funeral. If we would not have contacted the funeral home we would have no details. I learned of my grandmothers death through a facebook status update from a distant 2nd cousin. Oh well. Thanks for all your help. My father has no plans of justifying the lies his family has spread about him by seeking the money. My mother just wanted some answers if anything could be done. Thanks for the help!
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