joint accounts being hidden

[steffb503]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ
We now have another issue.
One sibling I believe had a large bank account with the decedent. She says no. I am sure she cashed it out as soon as he passed. There are no bank records in the house for it.
There are about 1000 banks in our county.
How can we find it and what happens if it is not reported on the tax forms(706). I understand that it is not probate-able but the value would be considered part of the taxable estate.
What are the penalties for omitting something?
Is it's value still part of the estate if it was cashed out prior to his passing?

 

[FlyingRon]

A joint account with survivorship rights isn't part of the estate. She's under no obligation to disclose nor do you have any reason to know about it.

 

[ShyCat]

Is it's value still part of the estate if it was cashed out prior to his passing?

If cashed out before his passing, the account balance was zero when he passed, so the short answer is NO.

 

[steffb503]

What's the long answer?
If it was not cashed at time of passing is it part of estate?
Considered a gift?

 

[steffb503]

What if the account did not say JTWROS simply both names on the account?

 

[anteater]

EDIT: A great big "Ooops" and apology. I had Virginia on my mind and entered the VA statutes below.


§ 6.2-608. Right of survivorship.

A. Sums remaining on deposit at the death of a party to a joint account belong to the surviving party as against the estate of the decedent unless there is clear and convincing evidence of a different intention at the time the account is created. If there are two or more surviving parties, their respective ownerships during their lifetime shall be in proportion to their previous ownership interests under § 6.2-606 augmented by an equal share for each survivor of any interest the decedent may have owned in the account immediately before his death; and the right of survivorship continues between the surviving parties.


§ 6.2-613. Payment of sums in joint account.

Any sums in a joint account may be paid, on request, to any party without regard to whether any other party is incapacitated or deceased at the time the payment is demanded. Payment may not be made to the personal representative or heirs of a deceased party under the Virginia Small Estate Act (§ 64.1-132.1 et seq.) unless (i) proof of death is presented to the financial institution showing that the decedent was the last surviving party or (ii) there is no right of survivorship under § 6.2-608.

 

[steffb503]

Now I am really confused. The instructions for the long form says


Instructions for Schedule E—Jointly Owned
Property
If you are required to file Form 706, you must complete
Schedule E and file it with the return if the decedent
owned any joint property at the time of death, whether
or not the decedent’s interest is includible in the gross
estate.
Enter on this schedule all property of whatever kind
or character, whether real estate, personal property, or
bank accounts, in which the decedent held at the time
of death an interest either as a joint tenant with right to
survivorship or as a tenant by the entirety.

 

[anteater]

An asset may be included in the gross estate, subject to estate/inheritance taxes, even if it is not part of the probate estate.

 

[TrustUser]

absolutely. trust assets are not subject to probate, but they are subject to estate tax.

 

[steffb503]

I kinda knew that my question was what are the consequences if the executor does not include those accounts simply because we do not know where there are or if they exist.