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Living Trust & Brokerage Account

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What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania.

I recently revoked my old living trust and created another using an attorney. I included my house and my stock holdings as the assets. I named it The Robert Jordan Revocable Aggreement of Trust.
At present, my account at the brokerage is titled as "Robert Jordan" with no beneficiaries. I took the beneficiaries off the account on the advice of the brokers representative. He stated that he never heard of anyone placing their stock holdings in a trust and leaving the beneficiaries out of it would be the way to go. The representative seemed to be not too knowledgable and I heeded his advice with suspicion with the intent of checking on the accuracy of his advice.
I used to have an account at another brokerage and my account was then titled "The Robert Jordan Revocable Aggreement of Trust". Hence my concerns about this situation. Should I insist on changing the account name to The Robert Jordan Revocable Aggreement of Trust which names eight beneficiaries to receive my assets and should I also place their names as beneficiaries on my brokerage account?

My purpose is to make it as easy as possible for my Trustee to close down my account and disperse the funds according to the trust. I also think the brokerage discourages adding beneficiaries when a trust is involved. I just want to separate fact from fiction.
Thanks.
 


Dandy Don

Senior Member
Was this trust prepared with the assistance of a trust attorney? If not you need to have it reviewed by one to see if it meets all legalities of your state.

Why is the trust titled as an "agreement of trust" and not simply as a "trust"?

If the beneficiary names are listed in the trust there is no need to have them listed as such on the brokerage account. The title of the trust account is sufficient.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])
 
Dandy Don,
Yes, the attorney reviewed all the changes I made to bring the old trust up to date and had it drawn up as a new trust.
The answer to your second question is: One must dictate whether the trust is revocable or unrevocable. The word "Agreement" may not have been necessary.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
If the brokerage account is not titled as a trust, it will have to go through probate. I would insist it be titled as a trust to make it easier. I say that because of the imprecision of language. The words on the top of the statements is not necessarilly the "title" of the funds. The account may be properly "titled", but I would make sure the "title" properly reflects the ownership. (Did that make an sense?)
 
Tranquility,
Yes, that makes sense. My living trust already lists my brokerage account as one of the assets. Do you still say it is necessary to change the account name to the trust because I am leaning towards making the change.
Tomorrow, I will contact one of the specialists at the brokerage. He/She will be asked how an account should be named, if probate is to be avoided. Hopefully, their answer should agree with yours or it will just lend to more confusion.
The original representative was probally not a licensed broker and admitted to not knowing anything about trusts and brokerage accounts listed with them.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
Q: Do you still say it is necessary to change the account name to the trust because I am leaning towards making the change.

A: Absolutely necessary; the brokerage house is not bound by what you put in the trust. So you have to make sure the brokerage house has it correct on their records.

By the way, those people at the brokerage house are not real bright.

I'd go somewhere else.
 
Seniorjudge,
Thanks. I think the person I spoke with, may have been a trainee and should've not been allowed to handle customers inquiries without supervision. Changing brokers is not the answer as I have run into simular situations many times where people don,t know the answers but they give what they feel is the best answer. Its better if they all would say " I don't know but will try find out ".
So if the brokerage does not agree to changing the name to the trust, I just may have to look for another broker.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
My living trust already lists my brokerage account as one of the assets. Do you still say it is necessary to change the account name to the trust because I am leaning towards making the change.
What your living trust lists as its assets is not relevant. Say you die and the person listed as trustee asks the brokerage for the money. If the brokerage does not have the account properly titled as a trust account (and, probably a copy of the trust), they will not turn the money over until someone comes with letters testimentary for the deceased. (Obtained through probate.) The account must be titled to the trust to be in the trust so that the trustee has legal ownership. Otherwise you have nothing but a wish.

So if the brokerage does not agree to changing the name to the trust, I just may have to look for another broker.
The name on the account may not be controlling. Ownership of the account is. I have never heard of a brokerage not properly dealing with such a simple request. This is not a weird situation in any way. I suggest the name on the statements and the owner on the account be the same.
 
Tranquility,
Thanks again and to all. I now feel confident that the trust name should be on the account. I have one other question. The brokerage said my trustee would need a "Short Certificate" when appearing to make claim on my assets. I have no idea what that is. Is this obtained through probate court?
 
Last edited:

anteater

Senior Member
Tranquility,
Thanks again and to all. I now feel confident that the trust name should be on the account. I have one other question. The brokerage said my trustee would need a "Short Certificate" when appearing to make claim on my assets. I have no idea what that is. Is this obtained through probate court?
In PA, a "short certificate" is a shortened version of the Letters Testamentary. They are available to the estate's personal rep from the clerk of the probate court.

I hope that curb1 is correct that they actually said "death certificate." Stating that your successor trustee would need to present a short certificate indicates that the brokerage personnel are highly confused (to put it politely).
 

curb1

Senior Member
They might be referring to the one page "memorandom of Revocable Living Trust Agreement for Trustee". This would serve notice to the brokerage of the existance of the trust without sending the whole trust.
 
The representative definately said "Short Certificate".
I will get this all straighten out by speaking with a specialist as to what is needed by my trustee when making a claim under my trust.
 
Update: Living Trust & Brokerage

To all,
I spoke with a specialist and she will send me the application form to convert my account to the trust. I also need to provide copies of certain pages from the trust. When and if my trustee makes a claim to the trust account, a death certificate, a full copy of the trust and a ID are the only things required. No Short certificate is needed. This is how it is in Pennsylvania.
 

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