Living Trust vs Joint Tenancy

[milehightrustee]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Colorado.

One of my best friends has asked me some advice since he knows I have been the Trustee of a Living Trust for several years. I told him what I felt would happen but that he needed to seek the advice of an attorney and don't take my word for anything this important.

He has had a Revocable Living Trust for several years. It is funded with a home/80 acre ranch worth about 2.5 million. It is also funded with his bank accounts. The home and ranch is where the question comes in. He and his wife were co-trustees of the Trust. She passed away two years ago and he is now the sole Trustee. The beneficiaries (after he passes away) are his niece and nephew. He has plans of being re-married in June of this year. For some reason he wants to Quit Claim Deed the ranch to his soon to be new wife as a "joint tentant". He asked me what I thought. I told him it depends upon what he wants the disposition of the property to be after he dies. He still wants it to go to his niece and nephew. I told him that if he put his new wife on the property as a "joint tenant" it will basically "kill his Will" or "kill his trust". If he dies the property would then go to his wife as the sole owner ant the Trust won't mean anything at all at the moment of his death.

Like I said, I told him to go get an attorney's advice. I am not sure he can quit claim the property to her with it being owned by the Trust anyway or maybe he can. But, if he gives her a joint tenancy she will end up with the property if she survives him. ? What do any of you think would happen in this case. The property has no mortgage, it is free and clear and owned by the Trust and he as Trustee**************.....

 

[curb1]

I think the prospective wife has a pretty good gig going. Congratulations to her on her new ranch.

Have friend see an attorney some time soon (preferably before June).

 

[milehightrustee]

I think the prospective wife has a pretty good gig going. Congratulations to her on her new ranch.

Have friend see an attorney some time soon (preferably before June).

Actually, it is he that wants to give her the "joint tenancy" but I don't think he realizes that if he does that it will basically invalidate his Trust for the beneficiaries and you may very well be right about her. I don't know her very well at all and she may very well know exactly what would happen if he should die.

He will be talking with an attorney about this, I can guarantee that. I don't want him to end up involuntarily screwing his niece and nephew out of what he thinks will be going to them.

 

[curb1]

Prospective wife's children are most likely licking their chops, also.

Niece and nephew need to go back to work.

 

[TrustUser]

the trust only owns assets that are titled to it. if the house is re-titled, then the new titling is what the new rules will be.

 

[milehightrustee]

Prospective wife's children are most likely licking their chops, also.

Niece and nephew need to go back to work.

Niece and Nephew are not aware they are beneficiaries of their Uncle's Trust. They both are very hard workers, she is a Vascular Surgeon and he is a Veterinarian. Both are very successful people and hard workers.

So, bottom line, you agree with me that even though a piece of real property is owned by a Trust and has beneficiaries standing by to receive it on the death of the Trustor it can be completely destroyed with something as simple as a quit claim deed by the Trustee regardless if the Trustee is also the Trustor or not.

Kind of a touchy subject when your best buddy gets involved with a woman that ONLY he may see as honest. Seems to be an abundance of older women ready to pounce on an older man's assets.

 

[nextwife]

If someone else were Trustee, and the home owned by the trust, then his act of "quit claiming, if done by he individually, would be irrelevant.

He is trustee. That muddies the waters.

Why can't he provide for her future housing needs some OTHER way, without rushing to deed away part of HIS house? What if there ends up being a DIVORCE? Why should she get half the house he brought to the marriage?

 

[curb1]

milehightrustee,

I wasn't serious about niece and nephew needing to get a job. But, you understand what I was writing about. Let us know how his talk with the attorney reveals.

 

[milehightrustee]

Nextwife and Curb,

I think we all agree on the fact that this "new woman" should not end up with this ranch should Bill die. Also, the fact that she "would" end up with the ranch legally should ANY Trustee quit claim deed her a "joint tenancy" regardless of what the Trust says concerning beneficiaries. Bill is being blinded by his "need" for this woman. I try not to judge her but I don't see too much good in this upcoming transaction. He will listen to me, I won't let this happen but it is interesting to discuss the various possibilities, it helps me learn.

 

[curb1]

Then again, "Bill" might be using this carrot to make this deal (the marriage) work. You know what they say about "love is blind". Perhaps (most likely) "Bill" and the future wife have discussed this. I would be surprised if "Bill" didn't already realize the consequences of this action and is willing to let it happen. Most people would suggest it is a big mistake. "Bill" might think it is worth it. It is his money/ranch to do with as he pleases, warts and all.

 

[milehightrustee]

Then again, "Bill" might be using this carrot to make this deal (the marriage) work. You know what they say about "love is blind". Perhaps (most likely) "Bill" and the future wife have discussed this. I would be surprised if "Bill" didn't already realize the consequences of this action and is willing to let it happen. Most people would suggest it is a big mistake. "Bill" might think it is worth it. It is his money/ranch to do with as he pleases, warts and all.

You are correct. Believe me, I have seen Bill do goofy things ever since we went to kindergarten together He is about to get a major scolding from me and an honest evaluation of what he thinks he wants to do. He asked my advice on this in the first place so he will definitely be getting it. I will march his skinny butt right into the attorneys office if that is what it takes.

 

[curb1]

I think this might take some additional consideration by you from a different direction.

Do you want to put your friendship with Bill in jeopardy? It might be best to lay out all of the concerns and then turn the decision completely to Bill. Once he makes the decision, let it go. Once he gets married and has changed the deed, its close to a done deal. Right now he is choosing the future wife over his niece and nephew, and that might be what he wants.

 

[milehightrustee]

I think this might take some additional consideration by you from a different direction.

Do you want to put your friendship with Bill in jeopardy? It might be best to lay out all of the concerns and then turn the decision completely to Bill. Once he makes the decision, let it go. Once he gets married and has changed the deed, its close to a done deal. Right now he is choosing the future wife over his niece and nephew, and that might be what he wants.

Yes, I agree with you. It is his decision and I will not be getting in the way of that. I will however, make sure that he has all the facts of the legal issues involved so that he can make an informed decision based on facts. He and I have been friends for 60 years and believe me we have had some major differences of opinion on women but it has never got in the way of our long term friendship. I appreciate your thoughts and comments.

 

[milehightrustee]

Well, I explained as best I could to Bill what I thought would happen and he does want the ranch to go to his niece and nephew when he dies. He has an appointment tomorrow with the Trust attorney who originally did the work on his Trust. He will be asking him the questions he has asked me. This could be interesting. I told Bill he was using the wrong head to think with on this. He said, "well, have I not always done that". I said, "yep, about as much as I have in the past"**************.....I told him I should have castrated him after his wife passed away to keep him out of trouble.

 

[curb1]

Let us know how this turns out. This is interesting.