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Loan to Decedent Question

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Toobsman

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Maryland

My wife is one of three siblings receiving one third of the balance of her father's estate.

Her father was a very generous man during his lifetime, including paying $120,000 for an addition to another sibling's house for a major addition and some items she wanted, like a new kitchen, etc. This was done so that he could move in and live on one floor. He was in his early 80's and this was a "better" solution for him and his wife.

Not long after he did this, my wife and I asked him for help so that we could purchase a home. We were both 50 and previously divorced with severely negative financial outcomes. He and his wife were happy to do so, but we prepared a very simple letter wherein we would pay monthly interest and then the balance in full two years later. The loan amount is $50,000 and we could not meet the deadline. We continued to pay interest to him until his demise some ten months ago (his wife predeceased him by two years).

There are a number of items of interest regarding the above mentioned sibling who was a co-power of attorney for the decedent. I know we could petition the court for a full accounting, but don't really want to make this more difficult than it is. Just know that she decided to send her daughter to private school at a cost of $6,000 per year, two years before his demise. We know of other expenses she used his funds to pay for her own gain.

The third sibling is the personal representative of the will. Everyone knew of the loan, but again, this man was a very charitable person. On more than one occasion, we discussed it with him and he continually said, "don't worry about the loan". He had more than enough assets to provide him security, even when he was residing in the nursing home.

Even though my wife wrote her sibling about her dad's "forgiveness", the PR discussed the situation with the other sibling (the $120,000 addition sibling) and they deemed the loan necessary to be paid. There is no specific language in his will regarding this in any way and the will is two pages... very simple. Under the brief powers clause, the key section is "or otherwise to dispose of any assets at such times and upon such terms as the Personal Representative shall deem advisable....".

1. I realize that the loan is technically an asset of the estate.
2. It would seem to me that the language above provides the PR broad powers with respect to this situation. Further, when he was thinking about the loan, he contacted the other sibling to help in his decision making. She is not the PR and in my view, the PR should be making the decision on his own.
3. The PR is not even remotely considering the $120,000 spent on the addition, but has decided that the $50,000 loan is part of the estate.

My questions are: Should my wife and I petition the PR firmly about this, that the loan was not paid off when scheduled and her father verbally told the both of us on many occasions not to worry about the loan (btw, the PR has a copy of the letter)?

Can the PR simply ignore the "asset" as his power under the will seems to have a great deal of discretion in this area? Further, there is no specific language regarding loans in the Will.

My wife has been told by the PR that her share in a $300,000 estate will be reduced by the $50,000, which will be split between the siblings. Is that a lawful means of "collecting" on this loan that we know was forgiven?

Thank you in advance for reading such a long post and providing your advice and feedback!
 


tranquility

Senior Member
The loan is an asset and the PR has a fiduciary duty to the beneficiaries to try to collect it. Even if it were determined to be a gift, most states have a provision that such a gift should be considered against any amounts to be inherited by the beneficiary who received the gift.
 

Toobsman

Junior Member
Thank you Tranquility for your reply. If I may, can I dig a bit deeper?

The loan is a seperate asset of the estate. At this point, it is uncollectable as the debtor, my wife and I, have no ability to pay the debt. Nothwithstanding the fact that there would be sufficient funds to pay this debt after the distribution of the estate, it is currently a bad debt. Of course, the PR could file suit, etc., but the gist of the matter is.... is it within the law to actually "take" money from a beneficiary's distribution to satisfy the debt (especially when it appears that the PR has complete discretion as indicated in my first post)?

As to the "gifting issue", the loan was made almost five years ago. I don't see Gift Taxes coming into this situation.

Please be sure that we are not trying to get away with something here. I KNOW what my father-in-law said to us regarding the loan, essentially forgiving the principal debt. I also KNOW that if he were here, he would advise as much as he wanted his three offspring to each receive one third of his remaining estate. The older sibling and PR is a millionaire and the younger sibling has the $120,000 addition to her house. My wife "understands" that her father provided help to each of them during other periods of time. It simply is ridiculous that my wife should have her share reduced by the $50,000 when considering the whole picture. And once again, although splitting hairs, this will was written well after the loan took place and there is no clear or specific language suggesting the collection of same or any reference to this specific debt.

Any more help, comments or thoughts out there??? TIA!!!
 

xylene

Senior Member
The older sibling and PR is a millionaire and the younger sibling has the $120,000 addition to her house. My wife "understands" that her father provided help to each of them during other periods of time.
The wealth of the other change nothing. Your bad finances change nothing.

The fact that one sister recieved a 120k GIFT and you elected to take a 50,000 LOAN (that you couldn't pay at that) changes nothing.

It simply is ridiculous that my wife should have her share reduced by the $50,000 when considering the whole picture.
Maybe. I do see your point... But here is the counterpoint. You agreed to the loan, quite formally in writting, making it not a gift.

And once again, although splitting hairs, this will was written well after the loan took place and there is no clear or specific language suggesting the collection of same or any reference to this specific debt.
Not to split "heirs" :D A will does not need to list specific debts and assets of the estate to be quite valid.

Any more help, comments or thoughts out there??? TIA!!!
In the future make sure that any 'understandings' surrounding large sums of money are in writing (such as the forebearance and forgiveness of the principal amount) You might know that Dad's "Fagetaboudit" meant the debt was discharged, but without that written understanding it just as easily meant "Fagetaboudit (till I die)" The 'til I die' case has strong credibility given you were making interest only payments until death. :confused:
 

Toobsman

Junior Member
Thank Xylene....

As much as I don't feel the siblings, especially the PR are handling this in the manner the dad wanted, I do understand your statements and comments. Much appreciated.

One last thing....

Can the PR legally deduct the loan amount from my wife's portion of the estate? I have limited knowledge about estate settlements, but this would be just one of many assets under probate. It is a 50 word agreement promising to pay. If the agreement cannot be settled or collected and it is an asset of it's own, how can the PR, in my view, arbitrarily collect on the debt from the estate assets (my wife's one third portion)?

Thanks again....
 

xylene

Senior Member
Can the PR legally deduct the loan amount from my wife's portion of the estate? I have limited knowledge about estate settlements, but this would be just one of many assets under probate. It is a 50 word agreement promising to pay. If the agreement cannot be settled or collected and it is an asset of it's own, how can the PR, in my view, arbitrarily collect on the debt from the estate assets (my wife's one third portion)?
That is a question of your states specific laws. Experts might have more insight than moi on the specifics.

The specifics of your promisary note come heavily into play. What was the timeline on which you were to have this money paid off? Were you legally in default of the terms?

You do owe the estate this money. You don't stop owing the estate this money because of the distribution.

If your wife gets the 'full' inheritance, she still has to pay the 50,000 to the ESTATE.

BTW she does NOT owe each sister 25,000... She owes the the Estate 50,000... get it. ;)

Why are you reluctant to have the money taken from the inheritance? Do you have some alternate plan to pay it back?

Your wife does not get to cheat 2 her sisters by paying nothing.

This is a large inheritance. Your wife should have an accountant and estate lawyer look at your liabilities.
 

Toobsman

Junior Member
Thanks again Xylene for additional feedback.

Truly, we are not trying to "stiff" the siblings. As mentioned above, my wife's dad made it clear to us, (and probably to at least one of the siblings) that he didn't want the loan to interfere with the equal shares of the estate. A letter to the PR will cover this point one final time, but we are resigned to settling up, even if we are disappointed. We know that the very simple loan agreement, which did have a deadline for the principal going back two years ago, probably should have included language regarding a forgiveness upon the demise of the second to die. Didn't do it, so we will pay the piper.

I really appreciate the comment about the money being owed to the estate. It completely changes the formula for the final distribution. Essentially, it would seem to me that the mathematical equation would read: X + X + $25,000 + X + $25,000 = the residue of the estate is the means to allocate the assets - wherein the 3Xs represent the three equal shares and the extra $25,000 to the two other siblings covers the $50,000 owed.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Should anyone else have comments, please do so.
 

xylene

Senior Member
I really appreciate the comment about the money being owed to the estate.
;)

It completely changes the formula for the final distribution.
It does.

Essentially, it would seem to me that the mathematical equation would read: X + X + $25,000 + X + $25,000 = the residue of the estate is the means to allocate the assets - wherein the 3Xs represent the three equal shares and the extra $25,000 to the two other siblings covers the $50,000 owed.
I am not an accountant. Nor a lawyer. Just a guy with some college degrees and shared consumer experience...

The way you are laying that out sounds wrong.

There are three equal beneficiaries of the estate, right? (Nod yes.... :D)

Hypothetical value of estate (for simplicity sake) and EXCLUDING the debt note.

1,000,000

1,000,000 / 3 = $333,333

OK....

If you Paid off BEFORE distribution.
Hypothetical Estate Value INCLUDING Debt note.


1,000,000 + 50,000 = 1,050,000

1,050,000 = $350,000

Get it - your wife owns the right to recieve 1/3 of that debt note.

So that said, how much do we reduce your wife's distribution?

Algebra

You wifes share is 1/3 of the Total Estate minus 2/3 of the debt she owes

WIFE=(ESTATE/3 - (2*Debt/3)

EACH SISTER = (ESTATE - WIFE ) / 2


This is not a tiny amout of money. My calculations are based on simple math, not fundamentals accounting, or your state's specifc rules.

I urge you to consult with a lawyer / accountant to determine the true figures and any tax, legal or other obligations.
 
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Toobsman

Junior Member
Uh.....oh :)

You have to take the whole situation into consideration. Here is a cut and paste of the ending portion of your comments and mine... :D

OK....

If you Paid off BEFORE distribution.
Hypothetical Estate Value INCLUDING Debt note.
Hypothetical value of estate (for simplicity sake) and EXCLUDING the debt note.

1,000,000

1,000,000 / 3 = $333,333

1,000,000 + 50,000 = 1,050,000

1,050,000 = $350,000

Get it - your wife owns the right to recieve 1/3 of that debt note.

So that said, how much do we reduce your wife's distribution?

Algebra

You wifes share is 1/3 of the Total Estate of 1,050,000 or 350,000

LESS the 50,000 paid in for a net of 300,000.

My calculation is 3X + 50,000 = 1,000,000 (Note not paid under your assumption above)

Subtract 50,000 each side then… 3X = 950,000

X = 316,667

That is how she benefits and the siblings each end up with 316,667 + 25,000 each

Fair???”

My comments in quotes above.

Ahem... did you pass Algebra??? :D
 

anteater

Senior Member
Toobsman,

Why do you keep wanting to split the $50,000 between only the other 2 siblings? Your wife stands to get 1/3 of the $50K back as part of the estate disribution.
 

Toobsman

Junior Member
With regard to the $50,000 and "splitting" it as part of the estate, we don't have the ability to pay this to the estate. And, as I posted above, it seems that the "math" equation I utilized provides the "fairest" means to settle the matter.

However, I still don't have an opinion as to the validity of the Personal Representative "collecting" the debt due to the estate from the proceeds directed to the beneficiary. My limited understanding of estate settlement would suggest that the PR would have to made a demand for the loan proceeds. If they are not payable by the creditor, "my wife and I", under the language quoted in my first post regarding the "powers" of the PR, the PR would have "to dispose of any assets at such times and upon such terms as the PR shall deem advisable without application to any court for authority in respect thereto...". My interpretation would suggest that he could dismiss the loan, (especially as he has knowledge from my wife and possibly from the father that he told us not to worry about the loan), or he could file suit in a court of competent juristiction to collect the debt.

Since I am an "in-law", I truly have no idea what may have gone on during the last couple of years with regards to my father-in-law and what he may have told the other siblings, but history would suggest that his direct statement to us would be credible to the two siblings and/or one or both of them heard it themselves, but they decided that the debt should be collected. I do know that there were two seperate occasions where the two other siblings decided to meet regarding the estate prior to and then after the demise of my father-in-law without the third sibling, my wife, present.

Any comments???
 

curb1

Senior Member
Toobsman,
Anteater is correct (I believe). If you could pay the debt, the estate would be valued at an additional $50,000 (if the loan value is now considered uncollectable). She would then be entitled to 1/3 of that additional value. That is a higher amount than deducting the $50,000 from her $120,000.

If the estate is $360,000 in value, she should receive $120,000 minus $33,333.33. This would be $86,666.67, rather than the $70,000 that the PR is offering.

The rest of your argument is not valid without a written statement from the deceased.
 

anteater

Senior Member
Any comments???
Look, the court is unlikely to quibble about whether a debt owed to the estate by a beneficiary is settled by a bunch of checks changing hands or by adjusting the distribution of the estate assets among the beneficiaries.

Unless you and your wife intend to take a Louisville Slugger to the siblings as a means of gentle persusasion to forget about the debt, you are going to end up before the court arguing that the debt was forgiven. You can try to do it now or you can do it when the PR makes the distribution and you object to it.

I believe that everbody here who has expressed an opinion believes that you face a real challenge.
 

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