question regarding seizure of estate for long term care costs in CT long hot mess...

[littlewings]

Sorry if this is long but the more detail, the better you'll understand my situation.

My grandmother, on medicaid, no long term care insurance, no liquid cash, has an estate with a house that is in her name (solely that name, no spouse) has to go into long term care, the state can seize the property right?

My father is acting as her caregiver and "lives" there but the his name is not on any of the assets. He is arguing that the state can't touch anything until he dies because he is living there as the caretaker and is dependent on the estate. He claims he went to a lawyer and a lawyer told him this (I think he's lying). But he is obviously not a spouse and he's not her dependent (he's not her spouse or sibling, he's not a minor, he's not blind, he's not disabled, his name isn't currently even on anything!), so I'm thinking the state could absolutely seize the house to recover costs of her care. If she goes into a facility, he is no longer her caretaker. He hasn't been living there for 3 years and in fact, I think his license still says another address.

My first question is, since my grandma doesn't have LTC insurance, everything is still in her name, and her son is "living there" but not disabled, can medicaid still seize the house and if so, when? Before or after she dies?

The story gets more complicated...

Assuming medicaid can't seize the property for whatever reason, my grandma is leaving everything she owns to her only living child (my father) once she dies. Now, my father owes IRS near $100,000.00 in back taxes and fines. They supposedly went to a lawyer and had her will set up so that the house is in a trust to him under my name (not sure how that works, I wasn't there for the meeting and I don't have copies of any of the paperwork) so that he gets everything and the IRS can't take anything away from my dad (because it's in my name but will legally all go to him?)...or at least that's what my father is telling me.

Now the hot mess...

My father is harassing me saying he's writing me out of his will and he would rather have his (and my grandmother's) estate go to the state of CT than to me or anyone else in this family. He doesn't trust me he is offended by my cards I give him on holidays and says they are not good enough. He's stopped giving me cards on holidays but expects them in return. He has a long history of psychologically abusing myself (and unfortunately his mother), not to mention drug use and he got custody taken away (me) because he was an unfit father. So basically with this "trust" he set up, he is using my name to get his mother's estate and then telling me (and surviving family members) to go **** myself.

My second question,

If he is going to act like this towards me, then I don't want him using my name to get anything from her estate (as what he is claiming). Is there anything I could do to null that "trust" so that he can't use my name to inherit my grandmother's assets? I'm honestly not sure what kind of legal maneuver he did or what it means legally that her last will states the estate "goes to him, through my name"...does that mean I will get taxed? I didn't sign anything to allow him to do that.

I would love feedback from someone who went through this themselves or has a legal background because from what I've read online, this is wrong.

Thank you in advance.

 

[anteater]

The only provision that I can see that might "save" the house would be the exemption for transferring a residence to a caregiver child. But, then, there would be the problem of Dad being the owner and the IRS coming a calling.

As for the rest, we would be speculating on your speculating about what is going on with the will.

 

[LdiJ]

The only provision that I can see that might "save" the house would be the exemption for transferring a residence to a caregiver child. But, then, there would be the problem of Dad being the owner and the IRS coming a calling.

As for the rest, we would be speculating on your speculating about what is going on with the will.

What about the house in the trust with dad having a life estate and the OP being the remainderman? Is that a way that dad and grandma could have pulled it off?

 

[anteater]

What about the house in the trust with dad having a life estate and the OP being the remainderman? Is that a way that dad and grandma could have pulled it off?

My read of the post is that nothing has been done in the here and now. Even if they tried that now, they would have to contend with the 5 year look back.

But that could be what Grandmother's will states. Or the will might just transfer the property to the OP with a life estate to Dad.

Assuming either is the case, could the IRS do anything other than slap a lien on the life estate for Dad's tax debts? A lien that would expire when the life tenant expires?


But I am skeptical that the house will make it that far.

State Medicaid Agency to the right of them,
IRS to the left of them...
Volley'd and thunder'd....

 

[LdiJ]

My read of the post is that nothing has been done in the here and now. Even if they tried that now, they would have to contend with the 5 year look back.

But that could be what Grandmother's will states. Or the will might just transfer the property to the OP with a life estate to Dad.

Assuming either is the case, could the IRS do anything other than slap a lien on the life estate for Dad's tax debts? A lien that would expire when the life tenant expires?


But I am skeptical that the house will make it that far.

State Medicaid Agency to the right of them,
IRS to the left of them...
Volley'd and thunder'd....

I suppose that the IRS could slap a lien on the life estate...but I kind of doubt that they would bother. The odds of a life estate ever producing any cash is pretty slim. If the life estate did ever produce any cash it would end up in a bank account that the IRS could levy anyway.

 

[littlewings]

Yes, nothing has been done for the past 5 years, everything is in her name still. I was referring to her last will and testament. I was wondering what will happen when she dies in a situation like this?

I'm thinking 2 things could happen,

1.Medicaid comes for the estate as soon as she goes in the home (still living) or dies
2.My father somehow manages to claim he is a disabled dependent and then Medicaid/IRS couldn't touch the house until he died

in either scenario, the family would receive nothing, which is the way my father wants it.

So, assuming they appointed me as remainderman, and my father is the life estate owner when she dies, he is responsible for paying the mortgage, taxes and insurance on the property, as well as upkeep and repair of the property?

I on the other hand, as a remainderman, have ownership interest in the property subject to the life estate interest. I do not have the right to occupy, possess or otherwise use the property until the life estate is terminated? (which I will probably not be able to do with Medicaid on the left and IRS on the right).

I certainly did not sign anything agreeing to be a remainderman for anything like this so my father (who treats the family like dirt) could use my name to inherit the estate and cheat IRS penalties. Is there anything I can do to find out if my name is on the last will and testament and if I am listed as remainderman, can I have my name removed?

If the house is in his name, and my grandmother dies, the IRS will swoop in and try anything to grab it. They have been sending him certified mail for years and he supposedly owes close to $100k. He flat out told me the last will states the house is left to him through my name to avoid the IRS coming after him.

Thank you in advance.

 

[anteater]

Is there anything I can do to find out if my name is on the last will and testament and if I am listed as remainderman, can I have my name removed?

Unfortunately, unless someone with the original or a copy is willing to show it to you, no.

ADDED: And, even if you managed to see the will or get a copy, there isn't a means by which you can force the testator to change it.

For now, all you can do is wait to see how the situation develops. If the house makes it to grandmother's death unencumbered, then you should be able to find out exactly what the will states. And then decide what action to take. You will probably want to consult with your own attorney at that time.


Take or leave the following. By your description, your Dad sounds like a "scheming deadbeat" with, perhaps, a few mental problems on the side. Now, you can look up all those nice definitions of responsibilities in a life tenant/remainderman relationship. But those apply when both sides are dealing honestly and in good faith. From what you have said, I would not want to be on the remainder side of the relationship with your Dad. It sounds like a recipe for constant conflict.

 

[Ohiogal]

Unfortunately, unless someone with the original or a copy is willing to show it to you, no.

ADDED: And, even if you managed to see the will or get a copy, there isn't a means by which you can force the testator to change it.

For now, all you can do is wait to see how the situation develops. If the house makes it to grandmother's death unencumbered, then you should be able to find out exactly what the will states. And then decide what action to take. You will probably want to consult with your own attorney at that time.


Take or leave the following. By your description, your Dad sounds like a "scheming deadbeat" with, perhaps, a few mental problems on the side. Now, you can look up all those nice definitions of responsibilities in a life tenant/remainderman relationship. But those apply when both sides are dealing honestly and in good faith. From what you have said, I would not want to be on the remainder side of the relationship with your Dad. It sounds like a recipe for constant conflict.

Here is the thing: NO ONE is entitled to anything. The house may very well go to the state for Medicaid payback.

 

[ecmst12]

I'm thinking that neither your dad nor you is going to get anything when it's all said and done (after grandma passes), between the state and the IRS it will all be gone. If anything ends up in your name, of course, it's yours and you don't have to give anything to your dad. But that's a highly unlikely scenario and if I were you, I'd wash my hands of the whole thing.

 

[LdiJ]

I'm thinking that neither your dad nor you is going to get anything when it's all said and done (after grandma passes), between the state and the IRS it will all be gone. If anything ends up in your name, of course, it's yours and you don't have to give anything to your dad. But that's a highly unlikely scenario and if I were you, I'd wash my hands of the whole thing.

I pretty much agree. Dad might possibly get to live there for his lifetime but eventually its going to be taken for Medicaid purposes.

Even if grandma files a quit claim and deeds it to grandson with a life estate for dad, its still past the 5 year look back and that isn't going to fly.

 

[anteater]

I pretty much agree. Dad might possibly get to live there for his lifetime but eventually its going to be taken for Medicaid purposes.

Even if grandma files a quit claim and deeds it to grandson with a life estate for dad, its still past the 5 year look back and that isn't going to fly.

I don't know of a Medicaid provision that would allow him to continue living there. The one possibility is if he convinces the state agency that he provided care to grandmother for at least 2 years that kept her out of a long term care facility. But that exception provides that the residence can be transferred to the caregiver child. Which transfer, I assume, the IRS will soon discover and hit the place up with a lien.

Ohiogal
Here is the thing: NO ONE is entitled to anything. The house may very well go to the state for Medicaid payback.

I never said anything to the contrary, OG. I doubt that it will get to the point that anybody has to worry about what grandmother's will says. (If somehow it does, I will have to grant a grudging respect for Dad and his attorney. )